Hi,
My name is Excel F. I ordered a box of puros indios from your website. They were shipped
by ups, i happened not to be there when they were delivered due to having to go back out
of town for a family emergency.
I put instructions in the shipping for the box to be left at the hub if no one was in the office
for pickup. I buy a LOT of cigars and with those instructions i normally get a call from UPS
that the package will be held for 7 days and we can pick it up! I didn't get a quantum shipping
email, nor did get a call from the hub letting me know that I could pick the box up. Instead they
continued to deliver the package.
My driver NEVER does this! I receive a lot of packages in this same manner! I didn't get an
email me notifying me of the delivery attempt because Atlantic cigar must not have utilized
the shipping confirmation feature! I never have UPS emails go to spam and it didn't in this
case because it wasn't sent out in that manner! Other companies, 5 minutes after they key
the order # in you get a UPS Tracking Number. Not this order with Atlantic!!!
The person helping me at the phone # 570-476-5718 was rude, obnoxious, and kept trying
to place the blame on me even though he read my instructions in the comment box!
I wont' be shopping with you again, and i'm a member of 6 different cigar forums, you can
trust and believe that I will detail my experience with each and every one of them warning
others of what they can expect.
What pissed me off was the guy wanting to charge me an additional 5.95 for shipping! Are
you serious? If i didn't leave instructions fine. I bought some cigars from Twins Smoke Shop,
a similar situation handled, I called up, spoke to Kurt, he sent them right back out, and i'll
continue to do business with him.
Disgusted,
Excel F :mad:
Everyone has a bad day.
In such situations and usually early on, it's quickly obvious there's a problem.
At that point and before things get out of hand, cut them off at the knees -- ask to speak to their supervisor -- and don't take no for an answer.
Nine times out of ten -- as Inspector Clouseau used to say -- Problem Solve-Ed.
Thanks for the feedback. I've never ordered from them before, so let us know if it eventually gets resolved. They have some great deals from time to time, but if their CS is suspect, I don't want to do business with them.
nwb
Didn't someone have a go-round with them a while back?
Quotenwb - 5/25/2010 11:38 AM
Thanks for the feedback. I've never ordered from them before, so let us know if it eventually gets resolved. They have some great deals from time to time, but if their CS is suspect, I don't want to do business with them.
nwb
Ditto!
I am confused. Sounds like you are pissed off with Atlantic for errors made by UPS????
I have made quite a few purchases from Atlantic and their shipping and service were fine. I guess people are not allowed to make mistakes wether it was Atlantic or UPS????
Quotevetman03 - 5/25/2010 2:48 PM
I am confused. Sounds like you are pissed off with Atlantic for errors made by UPS????
I have made quite a few purchases from Atlantic and their shipping and service were fine. I guess people are not allowed to make mistakes wether it was Atlantic or UPS????
That was initially what I was thinking too, vetman, but I think what really pissed off Excel was that when he called he was given the run around on the phone. Good companies tend to work with you to fix problems, mediocre ones tend to blame the customer or someone else for the error.
I've ordered from Atlantic twice in the past month and have had no problems at all.
Quotevetman03 - 5/25/2010 2:48 PM
I am confused. Sounds like you are pissed off with Atlantic for errors made by UPS????
I have made quite a few purchases from Atlantic and their shipping and service were fine. I guess people are not allowed to make mistakes wether it was Atlantic or UPS????
Yes, appears to be a shipping problem -- but who's at fault doesn't matter.
The answer, as every retailer knows, is to keep the customer happy.
Apparently in this case, the Atlantic Cigar Rep argued over a $5.95 shipping charge which resulted in his company losing a customer who subsequently told all his cigar smoking friends "Atlantic Sigar SUX" and posted his frustrations on at least 5 internet cigar forums.
Now who won that pissing contest?
Feelin your pain there 'Deeni. I have ordered from Atlantic several times over the last few months and mine went ok but the point is they don't seem to be trying to keep their customer satisfied. They are the company who use shipping companies and they can rectify it from their end alot easier than you. I'm with the other brother who is saying they need to take care of their customer in this as that is just the cost of doing business.
I guess I would discuss the problem with someone higher up than the low level CS people that answer the phone first. It should have been easy to resolve. If my newspaper delivery person throws the paper in the garden, do I burn their whole office building down? I dont sweat the little stuff.
CS is what keeps me with companys, if it's not good I don't do business with them. :mad:
Excel,
Thanks for the heads up. I appreciate how fellow members here post their experiences, so I have an idea of how a company treats it's customers. At my job I am responsible for providing end user support for over 100 clients. It has always been my belief that the customer is never wrong. These are the people who are responsible for me having employment. When I decide to give a Cigar merchant my business I do expect to be listened to and have my needs met. The problem may not be your fault, but at least treat me with value. That being said I have done the majority of my business with Cigars INTL and they are outstanding.
Quotevetman03 - 5/25/2010 3:33 PM
I guess I would discuss the problem with someone higher up than the low level CS people that answer the phone first. It should have been easy to resolve. If my newspaper delivery person throws the paper in the garden, do I burn their whole office building down? I dont sweat the little stuff.
I tend to stick with the same vendors unless there is a really good deal because they have treated me well in the past. If you have 20 different ways of obtaining your newspaper, and he throws it in the garden, maybe you just get someone else to deliver it. That is the beauty of having choices. BTW, welcome to the site, glad this discussion encouraged you to post.
I've never ordered from them, but this makes me not jump to do so.
Quotesmoke 1 - 5/25/2010 12:36 PM
Excel,
Thanks for the heads up. I appreciate how fellow members here post their experiences, so I have an idea of how a company treats it's customers. At my job I am responsible for providing end user support for over 100 clients. It has always been my belief that the customer is never wrong. These are the people who are responsible for me having employment. When I decide to give a Cigar merchant my business I do expect to be listened to and have my needs met. The problem may not be your fault, but at least treat me with value. That being said I have done the majority of my business with Cigars INTL and they are outstanding.
I can only imagine how successful your company is to have somebody like you in their employment. 25 years as a Plant Manager myself and I used the same CS Plan of Action you have and it served and saved the way we did business more times than I can tell you. We earned their trust and we got their business. If we sat on our hands when problems arose we'd have gone out of business all to soon. Did some customers take advantage of this policy? Of course they did but what we lost in those cases we doubled contracts with those who always used our business. The Cost of Doing Business is not just a motto...it is a real and defined way of seperating how you do business compared to your competitors and our reputation in business was...if you are not happy with the product and service you received from us we will double what you lost as long as it was verified. Our way of production was actually enhanced because we were very careful not to send out bad product and our customers were not only given back what they lost but extra as well. No wonder our future contracts with them went so easy?
QuoteAlphairon - 5/25/2010 2:57 PM
I've ordered from Atlantic twice in the past month and have had no problems at all.
I've ordered from them a lot and have had good service and responsiveness. I'm surprised by this, and I hope that the vendor steps up to fix the problem.
sounds to me like UPS screwed this one up... i work in shipping and this happens from time to time. in my limited experience atlantic is a great company w/ great cust. service. try and contact them again... i'm sure they will do everything they can to make this right. good luck!
I spent a good ten years or so in retail auto parts management. The very first thing I told new employees was the guy across the counter isn't buying that starter or water pump because he wants to. He's buying it because he's got to make sure he can get to work tomorrow. His day's already bad enough; don't make it any worse by being a douche. The bottom line is is the customer pays your salary. It's a shame more people don't get it...
[/QUOTE]
The Cost of Doing Business is not just a motto...it is a real and defined way of seperating how you do business compared to your competitors QUOTE]
Excellent point Gary :word:
Update,
Apparently Paul the president of Atlantic received the email and proceeded
to tell me that his rep was half right, and in lieu of the situation that he would
reship the package sans shipping fees.
One of his employees went on two of the other forums that I posted on and
pasted Paul's response onto them to tell their side of the story.
In retrospect, had I looked at the email (or waited to see if i would get a response
from Atlantic) before posting this thread, I definitely would have and it
would have been just that. Issue resolved. We even came to the conclusion
that it would probably be best that they change my shipping address to the
UPS Hub for all future purchases from them. (And I wholeheartedly agree.)
UPS delivery times are not guaranteed like the post office/fed ex and we run
a small sized operation here.
So as far as I'm concerned, Paul did a much better Job of handling the issue and
Larry, Pete, other Mod's you can lock this if you see fit to do so. No need to continue
throwing Good Ole Atlantic Under a Bus! :lmao:
A least there was a resolution that both sides seem to be happy with! Thanks for keeping us updated.
I'm glad things worked out for you (after a little public pressure!) Good for you. :thumbsup:
Very good the hear. I think I remembered BlackIrish saying it was a good outfit, so I was surprised to hear about your experience. Thanks for the update - now I have one more vendor to watch :shades:
nwb
QuoteBRLESQ - 5/25/2010 6:45 PM
I'm glad things worked out for you (after a little public pressure!) Good for you. :thumbsup:
Nice to see for sure :-) Now if the government listened this well.... Glad they took care of you Excel.
No need to lock the thread here. It is a good piece of information. Sorry to hear about your plight Excel, but happy to hear it was resolved. Nothing is more frustrating than not being satisfied.
I love a happy ending :cry:
As someone who used to work retail management I hated the motto, "the customer is always right." Sure I would always do my best to satisfy their needs and resolve the issue, but some customers would always push the issue and want even more of a hand out. You can't please them all, and sometimes you have to stay firm with policy. Losing a customer is never good, but keeping a bad customer is not good either.
Glad your situation worked out for you.
Quotecmmayo - 5/26/2010 12:57 AM
I love a happy ending :cry:
:lmao:
Quotemetalhead y cigarguy - 5/26/2010 1:48 AM
As someone who used to work retail management I hated the motto, "the customer is always right." Sure I would always do my best to satisfy their needs and resolve the issue, but some customers would always push the issue and want even more of a hand out. You can't please them all, and sometimes you have to stay firm with policy. Losing a customer is never good, but keeping a bad customer is not good either.
Glad your situation worked out for you.
I am with you on this. We actually did a study at one time that we spent over 75% of our time with the bottom 25% of our paying customers. We actually got to a point that we "fired" customers. There business simply wasn't worth the time and effort needed to satisfy them when that time and effort could be spent satisfying and producing significantly more revenue with our bigger customers. We would kindly point them to someone better suited to help them with their needs.
Quoteratboy - 5/26/2010 11:52 AM
I am with you on this. We actually did a study at one time that we spent over 75% of our time with the bottom 25% of our paying customers. We actually got to a point that we "fired" customers. There business simply wasn't worth the time and effort needed to satisfy them when that time and effort could be spent satisfying and producing significantly more revenue with our bigger customers. We would kindly point them to someone better suited to help them with their needs.
Classic 80-20 rule. You don't happen to work in Financial Services, do you?
The only problem with that logic is we live in a world where forum/blogging can really make or break a company. If one of those bottom 20 is inclined to do so, they can really tarnish your reputation, especially if they are well regarded in their social circles. Just my .02.
nwb
Quotenwb - 5/26/2010 10:39 AM
Quoteratboy - 5/26/2010 11:52 AM
I am with you on this. We actually did a study at one time that we spent over 75% of our time with the bottom 25% of our paying customers. We actually got to a point that we "fired" customers. There business simply wasn't worth the time and effort needed to satisfy them when that time and effort could be spent satisfying and producing significantly more revenue with our bigger customers. We would kindly point them to someone better suited to help them with their needs.
Classic 80-20 rule. You don't happen to work in Financial Services, do you?
The only problem with that logic is we live in a world where forum/blogging can really make or break a company. If one of those bottom 20 is inclined to do so, they can really tarnish your reputation, especially if they are well regarded in their social circles. Just my .02.
nwb
Yep, financial services. I agree with what you are saying but I have noticed people are amazingly forgiving if your product is making them money. Luckily we don't actually work with the general public, just brokers and registered reps but we just wont work with low producing reps whenever we can. When we would have somebody with a $10,000 account tying up a CSR for an hour meanwhile a multimillion dollar producer is on hold and getting angrier by the minute we are willing to risk it. I'm actually in IT but pick up tidbits from a lot of our sales guys. Its unfortunate that we would voluntarily get rid of customers but its a fact of our industry.
Back in college in the late 60's, I worked a few summers for an old guy who managed a shoe store for a chain that actually manufactured their own line of shoes and sold them in their own stores (Knapp) as well as to large customers like Sears. He had the following mantra:
"It takes us at least 10 good, satisfied customers to make up for the damage we cause when we allow a single customer to walk out who's unhappy with our product or service."
When you "drop" the little guy or piss him off in some way, he's the lodge brother, the Church member, the regular at your local bar with the bad taste in his mouth who reminds everyone how terribly your establishment treats customers.
QuoteROTHNH - 5/26/2010 10:03 AM
. . . He had the following mantra: "It takes us at least 10 good, satisfied customers to make up for the damage we cause when we allow a single customer to walk out who's unhappy with our product or service."
When you "drop" the little guy or piss him off in some way, he's the lodge brother, the Church member, the regular at your local bar with the bad taste in his mouth who reminds everyone how terribly your establishment treats customers.
In this age of hyper-marketing, word-of-mouth is still very, very important.
QuoteROTHNH - 5/26/2010 11:03 AM
Back in college in the late 60's, I worked a few summers for an old guy who managed a shoe store for a chain that actually manufactured their own line of shoes and sold them in their own stores (Knapp) as well as to large customers like Sears. He had the following mantra:
"It takes us at least 10 good, satisfied customers to make up for the damage we cause when we allow a single customer to walk out who's unhappy with our product or service."
When you "drop" the little guy or piss him off in some way, he's the lodge brother, the Church member, the regular at your local bar with the bad taste in his mouth who reminds everyone how terribly your establishment treats customers.
I don't know that I believe this any more. I think it is still the case in small businesses but in large businesses I don't think they care. They basically say, if you don't like it you can go that other guy that gives equally shiatty customer service. IMHO there are far more examples of companies that give really, really crappy customer service than good ones. Airlines, cell phone companies, banks, bars/restaurants, government etc... All have gone down hill in customer service in my lifetime and yet they aren't going out of business. In many cases they are thriving.
Quotenwb - 5/26/2010 10:39 AM
Quoteratboy - 5/26/2010 11:52 AM
I am with you on this. We actually did a study at one time that we spent over 75% of our time with the bottom 25% of our paying customers. We actually got to a point that we "fired" customers. There business simply wasn't worth the time and effort needed to satisfy them when that time and effort could be spent satisfying and producing significantly more revenue with our bigger customers. We would kindly point them to someone better suited to help them with their needs.
Classic 80-20 rule. You don't happen to work in Financial Services, do you?
The only problem with that logic is we live in a world where forum/blogging can really make or break a company. If one of those bottom 20 is inclined to do so, they can really tarnish your reputation, especially if they are well regarded in their social circles. Just my .02.
nwb
True but millionaires tend to hang around with other millionaires. People that don't have that net worth usually don't. The big guys are the ones we worry about. I don't condone it, especially from a selfish position because I'm much closer to the latter than the former but its simply a fact of life.
Quoteratboy - 5/26/2010 1:26 PM
I don't know that I believe this any more. I think it is still the case in small businesses but in large businesses I don't think they care. they basically say, if you dont like it you can go that other guy that gives equally shiatty customer service. IMHO there are far more examples of companies that give really, really crappy customer service than good ones. Airlines, cell phone companies, banks, bars/restaurants, etc...all have gone down hill in customer service in my lifetime and yet they aren't going out of business. In many cases they are thriving.
I think that view, with all due respect, is taking the proverbial ostrich head in the sand perspective.
In fact, I believe it's more true than ever now -- especially with social media like Facebook, Twitter, etc. -- that among true business professionals and with experts in the academic world that track such things -- where everyone is scrutinized and hundreds of millions of people know what the Japanese Chairman of Toyota said this afternoon and what Ashton Kutcher had for breakfast as soon as it happens -- businesses are (or should be) on top of how they treat their customers and what their customers think about them in order to succeed.
There will always be exceptions; however, generally speaking, poor customer service hurts businesses that compete in niche markets and those that provide a differentiated product or service. Generally speaking, customer service is less a factor among businesses that compete with price leadership (low prices).
Quoteratboy - 5/26/2010 11:59 AM
QuoteROTHNH - 5/26/2010 11:49 AM
Quoteratboy - 5/26/2010 1:26 PM
I don't know that I believe this any more. I think it is still the case in small businesses but in large businesses I don't think they care. they basically say, if you dont like it you can go that other guy that gives equally shiatty customer service. IMHO there are far more examples of companies that give really, really crappy customer service than good ones. Airlines, cell phone companies, banks, bars/restaurants, etc...all have gone down hill in customer service in my lifetime and yet they aren't going out of business. In many cases they are thriving.
I think that view, with all due respect, is taking the proverbial ostrich head in the sand perspective.
In fact, I believe it's more true than ever now -- especially with social media like Facebook, Twitter, etc. -- that among true business professionals and with experts in the academic world that track such things -- where everyone is scrutinized and hundreds of millions of people know what the Japanese Chairman of Toyota said this afternoon and what Ashton Kutcher had for breakfast as soon as it happens -- businesses are (or should be) on top of how they treat their customers and what their customers think about them in order to succeed.
Has anyone been on an airline, called your cellphone carrier, cable carrier, tried to talk to a person on the phone at the bank lately? We have more access to more ways to complain than ever, not to mention the ability to reach a wider audience yet CS continues to decline. Please give me one example of a large corporation that has been seriously hurt by their crappy customer service? I honestly cant think of one. Every year there are top 10 lists published with the customer service corporations and year after year its the exact same list. AT&T, Verizon, any airline, US Bank, Wellsfargo, Chilis, TGI Fridays, Fidelity, etc.... all of these places have facebook pages, twitter pages, articles, websites,etc... dedicated to warn people of their crappy customer service yet no real impact on their bottom line has occurred due to their issues.
QuoteROTHNH - 5/26/2010 10:49 AM
Quoteratboy - 5/26/2010 1:26 PM
I don't know that I believe this any more. I think it is still the case in small businesses but in large businesses I don't think they care. they basically say, if you dont like it you can go that other guy that gives equally shiatty customer service. IMHO there are far more examples of companies that give really, really crappy customer service than good ones. Airlines, cell phone companies, banks, bars/restaurants, etc...all have gone down hill in customer service in my lifetime and yet they aren't going out of business. In many cases they are thriving.
I think that view, with all due respect, is taking the proverbial ostrich head in the sand perspective.
In fact, I believe it's more true than ever now -- especially with social media like Facebook, Twitter, etc. -- that among true business professionals and with experts in the academic world that track such things -- where everyone is scrutinized and hundreds of millions of people know what the Japanese Chairman of Toyota said this afternoon and what Ashton Kutcher had for breakfast as soon as it happens -- businesses are (or should be) on top of how they treat their customers and what their customers think about them in order to succeed.
I think that with the social media boom, we have become oversaturated with information. There is always someone bitching about quality, customer service, etc. I think that, for the most part, it falls on deaf ears.
It is like car alarms. When someone hears one, no one thinks "hey that guy's car is being stolen" they think "I wish someone would turn that damn thing off".
Even hearing, about Excel's bad luck with Atlantic, people like Eddie and I who have used them are probably not going to be dissuaded. It would take a pretty catastrophic story to do so.
Even when issues are close to home, rarely will people be swayed. I complain constantly about Northwest Airlines. That doesn't stop my coworkers from using them if their schedule is convenient. One of my coworkers was stranded and abandoned by United in Denver. That won't stop me from using them.
Even if Atlantic had screwed up worse and tomorrow had a deal of a Dozen Gurkha Centurions for $20, I would take the risk.
QuoteJackal - 5/26/2010 11:28 AM
. . . I think that with the social media boom, we have become oversaturated with information . . . .
:word: !!!!!
QuoteJackal - 5/26/2010 12:28 PM
QuoteROTHNH - 5/26/2010 10:49 AM
Quoteratboy - 5/26/2010 1:26 PM
I don't know that I believe this any more. I think it is still the case in small businesses but in large businesses I don't think they care. they basically say, if you dont like it you can go that other guy that gives equally shiatty customer service. IMHO there are far more examples of companies that give really, really crappy customer service than good ones. Airlines, cell phone companies, banks, bars/restaurants, etc...all have gone down hill in customer service in my lifetime and yet they aren't going out of business. In many cases they are thriving.
I think that view, with all due respect, is taking the proverbial ostrich head in the sand perspective.
In fact, I believe it's more true than ever now -- especially with social media like Facebook, Twitter, etc. -- that among true business professionals and with experts in the academic world that track such things -- where everyone is scrutinized and hundreds of millions of people know what the Japanese Chairman of Toyota said this afternoon and what Ashton Kutcher had for breakfast as soon as it happens -- businesses are (or should be) on top of how they treat their customers and what their customers think about them in order to succeed.
I think that with the social media boom, we have become oversaturated with information. There is always someone bitching about quality, customer service, etc. I think that, for the most part, it falls on deaf ears.
It is like car alarms. When someone hears one, no one thinks "hey that guy's car is being stolen" they think "I wish someone would turn that damn thing off".
Even hearing, about Excel's bad luck with Atlantic, people like Eddie and I who have used them are probably not going to be dissuaded. It would take a pretty catastrophic story to do so.
Even when issues are close to home, rarely will people be swayed. I complain constantly about Northwest Airlines. That doesn't stop my coworkers from using them if their schedule is convenient. One of my coworkers was stranded and abandoned by United in Denver. That won't stop me from using t
Even if Atlantic had screwed up worse and tomorrow had a deal of a Dozen Gurkha Centurions for $20, I would take the risk.
Thank you for making my point better than I can. :biggrin:
"I think that with the social media boom, we have become oversaturated with information. There is always someone bitching about quality, customer service, etc. I think that, for the most part, it falls on deaf ears."
I agree with being oversaturated - sometimes it is hard to tell truth when you have so much "noise" going on. However, if one of my close friends complains about a company, I listen and take note. Similarly, I've had a number of friends leave vendors because I had bad experiences with them. For instance, even though I've found some great deals on Thompson, I'm always reluctant to do business with them, mostly because of you guys.
"Even hearing, about Excel's bad luck with Atlantic, people like Eddie and I who have used them are probably not going to be dissuaded. It would take a pretty catastrophic story to do so."
No offense to Excel, but he is fairly new here. What if Eddie (BlackIrish), Tim (Podman), or especially Paul (Senorpablo) had said the same thing. I'm not going to speak for everyone, but I would take their complaints very seriously. As a matter of fact, I probably wouldn't do business with the offending vendor until the situation was made right.
"Even when issues are close to home, rarely will people be swayed. I complain constantly about Northwest Airlines. That doesn't stop my coworkers from using them if their schedule is convenient. One of my coworkers was stranded and abandoned by United in Denver. That won't stop me from using them."
I get swayed all the time. AT&T was my wireless carrier for 3 or 4 years, but I had one bad CS experience with them, and I immediately switched to Verizon. As far as I can tell, I probably pay $20-$30 extra a month for Verizon, but I would never go back to AT&T. Also, I would be reluctant to use airlines as an example - it is not exactly a beacon of true free market industry.
Dave S. had it exactly right, though. There will always be exceptions, especially in the case where a business is a low cost leader (Wal-Mart comes to mind). Another would be highly regulated or monopolized industries. Customer service is absolutely crucial to small and mid-size businesses, especially those in niche markets where there are a number of vendors.
nwb
I agree that for mom and pop shops it's important to satisfy all your customers, but the large corporations I worked for, one having over 1300 stores across the US, Canada, Mexico, Hawaii etc. and the other having over 900 stores across the US, the few pissed off customers don't make a dent in their business.
You also have to understand that not all pissed off customers were treated unfairly. Sometimes it just comes down to following policy, and the reason the policy is in place is because some retard before them abused the system. Getting pissed off at a store because they followed policy is completely different then a customer that truly received bad customer service.
Quotemetalhead y cigarguy - 5/28/2010 4:32 AM
You also have to understand that not all pissed off customers were treated unfairly. Sometimes it just comes down to following policy, and the reason the policy is in place is because some retard before them abused the system. Getting pissed off at a store because they followed policy is completely different then a customer that truly received bad customer service.
That is very true - it is near impossible to please everyone.
nwb