Cigar Geeks

There have recently been a number of incidents in various passes, Unlimited Pass Without End, Karma, Full Power Pass, Summer Free For All, and some others, that have been brought to my attention (which in itself is interesting, since I am not an administrator) by a number of our geeks.  I have also had a few highly colorful rants of my own about things that have happened.

Therefore, I have written an article for the site on cigar pass etiquette.  I encourage everyone who is, has been, or ever thinks about being in a pass to read it.  It goes over some simple things about passes that seem to get forgotten.

I am sure that most of the issues that have arisen recently have not been due to malfeasance by our members.  I think they have been due to just not thinking or not applying the golden rule of doing unto others as you would like done unto you.  The geeks are a great group of people, and the passes are lots of fun, but they are becoming sources of frustration to many of our members because of a few people who are just aren't thinking about their actions.

Remember, with great passes come great responsibility.   :cigarman:

Good article, Jackal  :bigthumbs:

I agree as well.  What you wrote was pretty much common sense but does spell it out.  My concern is if someone is bringing an issue up to you but not the individual or individuals concerned then there will continue to be an issue

I will include the link in future passes.  I especially like the point that 3 four dollar cigars do not equal a 12 dollar cigar.   :bigthumbs:

I've seen the less than golden rule of "do unto others....then split" applied before!




 :mad:

Thanks, Jason, for taking the time to write the article.  I have only a few minor thoughts to add.

First:  as a participant you should *always* err on the side of generosity.  The cigar that you're putting should always be clearly a fair trade for the one you're taking.  If you have any doubt, PM the moderator.

Second:  Jason has shown some restraint by posting this article rather than taking the issue up with the individual(s) involved.  IMHO, it's appropriate for a moderator to let a participant know -- privately, and politely -- that his/her contributions to a pass fell a bit short.  

QuoteBlackIrish - 7/20/2010  8:45 AM

Second:  Jason has shown some restraint by posting this article rather than taking the issue up with the individual(s) involved.  IMHO, it's appropriate for a moderator to let a participant know -- privately, and politely -- that his/her contributions to a pass fell a bit short.  

Completely agree.

Hey Jason, Great article.

Oh, you forgot no Rockys and ACIDs!



 :mad:

QuoteBob Cordell - 7/20/2010  8:51 AM

Oh, you forgot no Rockys and ACIDs!



 :mad:

I don't know Bob, I've been smoking some RP's lately and found some of them to be pretty good.  That RP Edge Sumatra was delicious!

QuoteBob Cordell - 7/20/2010  5:51 AM

Oh, you forgot no Rockys and ACIDs!



 :mad:

 :lmao:

Very good article Jason!
 :bigthumbs:

QuoteBlackIrish - 7/20/2010  8:45 AM

Thanks, Jason, for taking the time to write the article.  I have only a few minor thoughts to add.

First:  as a participant you should *always* err on the side of generosity.  The cigar that you're putting should always be clearly a fair trade for the one you're taking.  If you have any doubt, PM the moderator.

Second:  Jason has shown some restraint by posting this article rather than taking the issue up with the individual(s) involved.  IMHO, it's appropriate for a moderator to let a participant know -- privately, and politely -- that his/her contributions to a pass fell a bit short.  

Good points all around. I would also encourage the Pass Host to address issues privately and politely as they arise. Polite assertive host behavior can make a big difference in a pass too.

Quotejunglepete - 7/20/2010  9:37 AM

QuoteBlackIrish - 7/20/2010  8:45 AM

Thanks, Jason, for taking the time to write the article.  I have only a few minor thoughts to add.

First:  as a participant you should *always* err on the side of generosity.  The cigar that you're putting should always be clearly a fair trade for the one you're taking.  If you have any doubt, PM the moderator.

Second:  Jason has shown some restraint by posting this article rather than taking the issue up with the individual(s) involved.  IMHO, it's appropriate for a moderator to let a participant know -- privately, and politely -- that his/her contributions to a pass fell a bit short.  

Good points all around. I would also encourage the Pass Host to address issues privately and politely as they arise. Polite assertive host behavior can make a big difference in a pass too.

I enjoy passive aggressive vague insults posted on the forum.   :biggrin:

Quotelowpro75 - 7/20/2010  9:52 AM

I enjoy passive aggressive vague insults posted on the forum.   :biggrin:

 :biggrin:

:biggrin:

Good points.  Seems like it would be common sense but not everyone subscribes to that thought.  I haven't had the opportunity to participate in a pass yet but hopefully will in the near future.  Will definitely make sure I use good judgement when taking/putting cigars.

looks good! Could add: If a Canadian is involved, it honestly may take two weeks for the package to arrive at the next destination....he's not necessarily sketchy....but still may be.

QuoteHound10 - 7/20/2010  10:48 AM

looks good! Could add: If a Canadian is involved, it honestly may take two weeks for the package to arrive at the next destination....he's not necessarily sketchy....but still may be.

I think all Canadians are sketchy....

 :biggrin:

I think you covered most of the main issues, although there is probably more to say.  Not sure if you can edit the article, but perhaps you could add to it later if you think of any other issues that need to be addressed.

I went back throught this thread:  
http://www.cigargeeks.com/index.php?topic=4762.0

I think Jackal covered all the points we talked about.  As other issues come up we that are important Jackal can add as he sees fit.

:bigthumbs:  Well done!

Nice job, Jason. :thumbsup:

Thanks for the primer!

Quotecmmayo - 7/20/2010  11:31 AM

Thanks for the primer!

You need it the most.  














Is what I would say as an example of a passive aggressive vague insult posted on the forum. :biggrin:

Quotelowpro75 - 7/20/2010  10:32 AM

Quotecmmayo - 7/20/2010  11:31 AM

Thanks for the primer!

You need it the most.  

Is what I would say as an example of a passive aggressive vague insult posted on the forum. :biggrin:

As Bob would say,   :mad:

Quotecmmayo - 7/20/2010 1:35 AM

Quotelowpro75 - 7/20/2010 10:32 AM

Quotecmmayo - 7/20/2010 11:31 AM Thanks for the primer!

You need it the most. Is what I would say as an example of a passive aggressive vague insult posted on the forum. :biggrin:

As Bob would say, :mad:

Say it with this:   (http://www.ajarnforum.net/vb/images/smilies/finger.gif)

:lmao:  :lmao:  :lmao:

Thanks for the article Jason.  I've just been accepted into my first pass so your timing is perfect for me.  I'll be sure to apply these principles.   :-)

Well spoken.... thanks... :-)

Quotelowpro75 - 7/20/2010  8:00 AM

I went back throught this thread:  
http://www.cigargeeks.com/index.php?topic=4762.0

I think Jackal covered all the points we talked about.  As other issues come up we that are important Jackal can add as he sees fit.

Unfortunately, the system for articles is such that I have to post them to Paul and he then implements them.  I wish that the could have some type of Wiki style article system, where people could easily add their thoughts, and if the original writer accepts them, allow them to be added to the article.

QuoteHot Stuff x - 7/20/2010  11:45 AM

Quotecmmayo - 7/20/2010 1:35 AM

Quotelowpro75 - 7/20/2010 10:32 AM

Quotecmmayo - 7/20/2010 11:31 AM Thanks for the primer!

You need it the most. Is what I would say as an example of a passive aggressive vague insult posted on the forum. :biggrin:

As Bob would say, :mad:

Say it with this:   (http://www.ajarnforum.net/vb/images/smilies/finger.gif)

 :lmao: I like that.

QuoteJackal - 7/20/2010  10:56 AM

Quotelowpro75 - 7/20/2010  8:00 AM

I went back throught this thread:  
http://www.cigargeeks.com/index.php?topic=4762.0

I think Jackal covered all the points we talked about.  As other issues come up we that are important Jackal can add as he sees fit.

Unfortunately, the system for articles is such that I have to post them to Paul and he then implements them.  I wish that the could have some type of Wiki style article system, where people could easily add their thoughts, and if the original writer accepts them, allow them to be added to the article.

I'm assuming this website is using some sort of CMS.  There are a multitude of free wikis out there that would probably be very east to integrate with the current setup.

Well done.  Most of it should be common sense but that goes without saying.  One of the things you mentioned was "Think about the next guys down the line and if they would appreciate your takes."  Do you mean "appreciate your puts?".

Also I have a question on replacement value.  Should we bu using single stick MSRP as a rough guide?

Quotegrogo67 - 7/20/2010  9:16 AM

Also I have a question on replacement value.  Should we be using single stick MSRP as a rough guide?

My default valuation is the per stick price of a 5-pack from CI.  If that's not available, I attempt to determine the average of (1) the per stick price of a box and (2) the price of a single.  If neither of those are available, I Google it and get creative.

Quotelowpro75 - 7/20/2010  11:58 AM

QuoteHot Stuff x - 7/20/2010  11:45 AM

Quotecmmayo - 7/20/2010 1:35 AM

Quotelowpro75 - 7/20/2010 10:32 AM

Quotecmmayo - 7/20/2010 11:31 AM Thanks for the primer!

You need it the most. Is what I would say as an example of a passive aggressive vague insult posted on the forum. :biggrin:

As Bob would say, :mad:

Say it with this:   (http://www.ajarnforum.net/vb/images/smilies/finger.gif)

 :lmao: I like that.

Haaaaaaaaaaa!


 :lmao:

Quotegrogo67 - 7/20/2010  12:16 PM

Well done.  Most of it should be common sense but that goes without saying.  One of the things you mentioned was "Think about the next guys down the line and if they would appreciate your takes."  Do you mean "appreciate your puts?".

Also I have a question on replacement value.  Should we bu using single stick MSRP as a rough guide?

It really shouldn't matter, as long as you're using the same ruler across the board.
It would be very bad form to use CI five pack prices to value your takes, and local B&M singles prices to value your puts.

QuoteHot Stuff x - 7/20/2010  11:45 AM

Say it with this:   (http://www.ajarnforum.net/vb/images/smilies/finger.gif)

Hey Paul - any chance we can get this added to the list of emoticons?  I've needed it to respond to some of lowpro's posts.

 :biggrin:

:lmao:

Quotegrogo67 - 7/20/2010  9:16 AM

Well done.  Most of it should be common sense but that goes without saying.  One of the things you mentioned was "Think about the next guys down the line and if they would appreciate your takes."  Do you mean "appreciate your puts?".

Also I have a question on replacement value.  Should we bu using single stick MSRP as a rough guide?

I actually meant "takes".  If there are some nice, rare and/ or interesting cigars in the box and the guy before you takes all of them, then it is a pretty big disappointment unless he is putting back things that are equally interesting or rare.

I am saying don't take all of the Limited editions, ISOMs, and impossible to find cigars just because it is your turn and you can.  Think about the next guy and if he would like a crack at some of them.

As far as MSRP, I try to compare apples to apples.  I use the same site box price if I can.  If not, I use 5 pack price or single stick.  Just make sure that you don't compare box to single stick or the single stick will come out much higher.  MSRP isn't the end all be all either.  Availability definitely plays a big role.  A LFD Factory Press and a Tat Cojunu 2006 may have similar prices, but you can often find the tat in stores, where the LFD is a hard to find stick.  Smae goes for ISOMs.

QuoteDave S. - 7/20/2010  12:22 PM

Quotegrogo67 - 7/20/2010  9:16 AM

Also I have a question on replacement value.  Should we be using single stick MSRP as a rough guide?

My default valuation is the per stick price of a 5-pack from CI.  If that's not available, I attempt to determine the average of (1) the per stick price of a box and (2) the price of a single.  If neither of those are available, I Google it and get creative.

I use the reasonable market value theory.  If I get a killer deal on Cigarbid for say 3 bucks a stick and I know that is a once in a year deal, I look to see what is the reasonable market value.  What's a 5 pack on CI, JR or Famous?  Is this cigar a 5 pack madness special?  Can I get it on a cigarbid quickbuy for a comparable price per stick?  If the lowest I see is 6 bucks a stick, then I would say it would be fair to value it at that price.  

Someone once took an 18 dollar cigar I put in out of a pass and put in a $13 dollar cigar and then said "Well, at my B&M they are both $13 bucks.", which was total BS.  So be careful of B&M prices, especially ones that you can't prove.

I will throw in another one.  Don't use C-Bid or any other auction site as a yardstick.  Their prices get really out of whack.

Cool beans.  I got a handle on the valuation part of it now.  What I don't have is the experience to know what has limited availability since with the exception of my recent C-Bid purchase all have been single sticks from my B&M.

QuoteJackal - 7/20/2010  12:41 PM

I will throw in another one.  Don't use C-Bid or any other auction site as a yardstick.  Their prices get really out of whack.

I'm not sure I agree, especially on a brand like 5 Vegas, which is almost always available at a discount on cigarbid.  Can you explain your reasoning?

Quotegrogo67 - 7/20/2010  12:42 PM

...What I don't have is the experience to know what has limited availability since with the exception of my recent C-Bid purchase all have been single sticks from my B&M.

It never hurts to ask, either in the forum or directly with the moderator.  :biggrin:

True dat!

GUILTY!  I was recently and unintentionally one of the offenders of Cigar Pass Etiquette, but didn't know it until I read Jackal's great article this morning.  My first pass was the Newbie: Quest for Karma Pass, and Jackal praised me for my puts and takes, so I thought I knew what I was doing and the training wheels came off.  Then I was invited into the Full Power Pass by HotStuffx , but I screwed up by taking a higher end stick and replacing it with some lesser priced sticks. Those training wheel should have stayed on! :-(

For the record, I did give a lot of thought and research into my puts and takes and honestly thought I was doing good.  The old Cigar Pass article says "Members should put back at least the same value as they are taking."  And I thought that meant that the value of the sticks we put in should exceed the value of the sticks we take out.  But from Jackal's latest Etiquette guide and some of the posts here, I now realize this means that a $12 stick should be replaced by another $12+ stick...not with two $6 or $7 sticks.  My bad! :banghead:

I have already spoken to HotStuffx about this and, being the prince of a guy that he is, he said to forget about it.  But that's not good enough for me, so I will be sending him something special to make up for my stupidity.

As for the rest of the CG membership, my heartfelt apologies for screwing up.  Please forgive me; it will not happen again.  And if you want to start the public tongue lashings, that's OK too.  :shamebag:

QuoteBrlesq - 7/20/2010  10:27 AM

As for the rest of the CG membership, my heartfelt apologies for screwing up.  :shamebag:

 :bigthumbs:  That's the way to step up.  You're  :cool: .

QuoteBrlesq - 7/20/2010  1:27 PM

As for the rest of the CG membership, my heartfelt apologies for screwing up.  Please forgive me; it will not happen again.  And if you want to start the public tongue lashings, that's OK too.  :shamebag:

You're a screw-up....don't expect any pass invitations from me in the future!

 :biggrin:

In all seriousness, way to step up  :bigthumbs:

QuoteDave S. - 7/20/2010  10:32 AM

QuoteBrlesq - 7/20/2010  10:27 AM

As for the rest of the CG membership, my heartfelt apologies for screwing up.  :shamebag:

 :bigthumbs:  That's the way to step up.  You're  :cool: .

:word:

Thanks for the nice write up.  It is nice to see some guidelines laid out for people like myself that have never participated in something like this.

Quotenwb - 7/20/2010  12:31 PM

QuoteHot Stuff x - 7/20/2010  11:45 AM

Say it with this:   (http://www.ajarnforum.net/vb/images/smilies/finger.gif)

Hey Paul - any chance we can get this added to the list of emoticons?  I've needed it to respond to some of lowpro's posts.

 :biggrin:

Why would anyone want to give me the finger? :confused: I mean well. :biggrin:

Quotelowpro75 - 7/20/2010  2:05 PM

Quotenwb - 7/20/2010  12:31 PM

QuoteHot Stuff x - 7/20/2010  11:45 AM

Say it with this:   (http://www.ajarnforum.net/vb/images/smilies/finger.gif)

Hey Paul - any chance we can get this added to the list of emoticons?  I've needed it to respond to some of lowpro's posts.

 :biggrin:

Why would anyone want to give me the finger? :confused: I mean well. :biggrin:

You?  Never. :shades:

Bruce, you're a real stand-up guy.  I admire your integrity :thumbsup:

QuoteBrlesq - 7/20/2010  1:27 PM

GUILTY!  I was recently and unintentionally one of the offenders of Cigar Pass Etiquette, but didn't know it until I read Jackal's great article this morning.  My first pass was the Newbie: Quest for Karma Pass, and Jackal praised me for my puts and takes, so I thought I knew what I was doing and the training wheels came off.  Then I was invited into the Full Power Pass by HotStuffx , but I screwed up by taking a higher end stick and replacing it with some lesser priced sticks. Those training wheel should have stayed on! :-(

For the record, I did give a lot of thought and research into my puts and takes and honestly thought I was doing good.  The old Cigar Pass article says "Members should put back at least the same value as they are taking."  And I thought that meant that the value of the sticks we put in should exceed the value of the sticks we take out.  But from Jackal's latest Etiquette guide and some of the posts here, I now realize this means that a $12 stick should be replaced by another $12+ stick...not with two $6 or $7 sticks.  My bad! :banghead:

I have already spoken to HotStuffx about this and, being the prince of a guy that he is, he said to forget about it.  But that's not good enough for me, so I will be sending him something special to make up for my stupidity.

As for the rest of the CG membership, my heartfelt apologies for screwing up.  Please forgive me; it will not happen again.  And if you want to start the public tongue lashings, that's OK too.  :shamebag:

Where's the line forming? :biggrin:

Quotelowpro75 - 7/20/2010  2:07 PM

Where's the line forming? :biggrin:

This is where Bruce would need that finger emoticon - see?

 :biggrin:

Quotenwb - 7/20/2010  2:13 PM

Quotelowpro75 - 7/20/2010  2:07 PM

Where's the line forming? :biggrin:

This is where Bruce would need that finger emoticon - see?

 :biggrin:

I kind of see your point, peckerhead. :biggrin:

Quotelowpro75 - 7/20/2010  2:14 PM

Quotenwb - 7/20/2010  2:13 PM

Quotelowpro75 - 7/20/2010  2:07 PM

Where's the line forming? :biggrin:

This is where Bruce would need that finger emoticon - see?

 :biggrin:

I kind of see your point, peckerhead. :biggrin:

 :lmao:

Quotenwb - 7/20/2010  11:16 AM

Quotelowpro75 - 7/20/2010  2:14 PM

Quotenwb - 7/20/2010  2:13 PM

Quotelowpro75 - 7/20/2010  2:07 PM

Where's the line forming? :biggrin:

This is where Bruce would need that finger emoticon - see?

 :biggrin:

I kind of see your point, peckerhead. :biggrin:

 :lmao:

 :lmao:

:lmao:

I have not participated in a pass yet and was hesitant on doing so, because I didn't know all the ins and outs of the process. This article helps. Thanks.

I'm nopt one to participate in passes, yet I'm impressed with the article, the comments here and at least one of our fellow Geeks who owned up to his mistake.  WTG all!

If I may be allowed to comment from the sidelines here, I think the easiest way to err (and likely in a most egregious manner) is taking ectreme care when trying to determine the "value" of a rare, very hard to find, or out of production cigar you want to take from a pass.

I don't think that it can be stressed enough "In the end, the love you take, is equal to the love you make" -- The Beatles, last lyric on their last album.

I wont take this as a coincidence that this article was written after I committed the foul of taking more than I put.  In fact, Jackal was the one that PMed me to point it out (Im sorry if I was supposed to keep this hush, Jackal).

I thought I had made it better, making sure to talk to Corey and now sending more sticks to the person with the pass to try and fix the error.

However, with this thread and article popping up right afterwards, I cant help but feel this has all come up because of something I did.

It was an honest mistake, and its hard to check prices on 50 cigars when you dont know them off hand and have basically 5 minutes a day to try and put takes and puts.

Can we include MSRP on the cigar pass page next to each cigar?  It would help people like me... a lot.

Again, Im sorry, I thought I rectified the situation, and if I did not, please tell me what to do.

Scott - I don't think this was really directed towards you.  In the past 6 months, we have had a huge increase in the number of active members and passes.  As a matter of fact, another Geek already came out and apoligized as well.  As long as you plan to make it right and take the article into consideration on future passes, all is well  :biggrin:

QuoteMiaFLSurf - 7/20/2010  2:48 PM

I wont take this as a coincidence that this article was written after I committed the foul of taking more than I put.  In fact, Jackal was the one that PMed me to point it out (Im sorry if I was supposed to keep this hush, Jackal).

I thought I had made it better, making sure to talk to Corey and now sending more sticks to the person with the pass to try and fix the error.

However, with this thread and article popping up right afterwards, I cant help but feel this has all come up because of something I did.

It was an honest mistake, and its hard to check prices on 50 cigars when you dont know them off hand and have basically 5 minutes a day to try and put takes and puts.

Can we include MSRP on the cigar pass page next to each cigar?  It would help people like me... a lot.

Again, Im sorry, I thought I rectified the situation, and if I did not, please tell me what to do.

To the best of my knowledge, everything is fine now that it's been corrected.  You owned up to your mistake and it was an honest one.  It's not like you were out to defraud anyone.  Stop beating yourself up over it...We'll take care of that! :puncher:  :hityou:  :kickyou:

This thread is starting to feel like a confessional in a Catholic Church...

Try saying 4 Hail Mary's and 5 Our Fathers...

Quotegitfiddl - 7/20/2010  1:58 PM
To the best of my knowledge, everything is fine now that it's been corrected.  You owned up to your mistake and it was an honest one.  It's not like you were out to defraud anyone.  Stop beating yourself up over it...We'll take care of that! :puncher:  :hityou:  :kickyou:

 :word:

BTW...if you guys have other articles you think would be useful and want to have published in our repository let me know.  We have a ton of knowledge in the lesser structured forums but formalizing things in articles benefits all and makes it easier to find.

Thanks again Jason!
-Paul

Quote87North - 7/20/2010  3:48 PM

Quotelowpro75 - 7/20/2010  2:16 PM

This thread is starting to feel like a confessional in a Catholic Church...

Try saying 4 Hail Mary's and 5 Our Fathers...

Hey  - I said you could give me lashings, not post my picture in a nun suit!  :mad:   :lmao:

Quotelowpro75 - 7/20/2010  2:16 PM

This thread is starting to feel like a confessional in a Catholic Church...

Try saying 4 Hail Mary's and 5 Our Fathers...

QuoteBrlesq - 7/20/2010  2:55 PM

Quote87North - 7/20/2010  3:48 PM

Quotelowpro75 - 7/20/2010  2:16 PM

This thread is starting to feel like a confessional in a Catholic Church...

Try saying 4 Hail Mary's and 5 Our Fathers...

Hey  - I said you could give me lashings, not post my picture in a nun suit!  :mad:   :lmao:

No, I'm pretty sure that you specified Tongue Lashings which I'm pretty sure can get you arrested in public.   :shades:

Scary

You remember when the Penguin beat Belushi down the steps with that ruler in the Blues Brothers?


Thats mild compared to this bunch!


 :biggrin:

QuoteBob Cordell - 7/20/2010  4:26 PM

You remember when the Penguin beat Belushi down the steps with that ruler in the Blues Brothers?


Thats mild compared to this bunch!


 :biggrin:

:word:

QuoteMiaFLSurf - 7/20/2010  11:48 AM

I wont take this as a coincidence that this article was written after I committed the foul of taking more than I put.  In fact, Jackal was the one that PMed me to point it out (Im sorry if I was supposed to keep this hush, Jackal).

I thought I had made it better, making sure to talk to Corey and now sending more sticks to the person with the pass to try and fix the error.

However, with this thread and article popping up right afterwards, I cant help but feel this has all come up because of something I did.

It was an honest mistake, and its hard to check prices on 50 cigars when you dont know them off hand and have basically 5 minutes a day to try and put takes and puts.

Can we include MSRP on the cigar pass page next to each cigar?  It would help people like me... a lot.

Again, Im sorry, I thought I rectified the situation, and if I did not, please tell me what to do.

Actually, you weren't the reason.  There have been much more egregious issues with others.

QuoteBob Cordell - 7/20/2010  4:26 PM

You remember when the Penguin beat Belushi down the steps with that ruler in the Blues Brothers?

Thats mild compared to this bunch!
 :biggrin:

I still feel bad.  Maybe more lashings would help?   But instead of my heartfelt apology, should I have said:
 
   Honest... I ran out of gas. I had a flat tire. I didn't have enough money for cab fare. My tux didn't come back from the cleaners. An old friend came in from out of town. Someone stole my car. There was an earthquake. A terrible flood.  Locusts!  
IT WASN'T MY FAULT, I SWEAR TO GOD.  

 :confused:  :lmao:

Yours wasn't so bad.  I could go on about an Air Bender and a Liga Privada T-52 that got replaced with a couple of CAOs if I felt like kicking up some dust.

QuoteBrlesq - 7/20/2010  4:34 PM

QuoteBob Cordell - 7/20/2010  4:26 PM

You remember when the Penguin beat Belushi down the steps with that ruler in the Blues Brothers?

Thats mild compared to this bunch!
 :biggrin:

I still feel bad.  Maybe more lashings would help?   But instead of my heartfelt apology, should I have said:
 
   Honest... I ran out of gas. I had a flat tire. I didn't have enough money for cab fare. My tux didn't come back from the cleaners. An old friend came in from out of town. Someone stole my car. There was an earthquake. A terrible flood.  Locusts!  
IT WASN'T MY FAULT, I SWEAR TO GOD.  

 :confused:  :lmao:

The full power pass is private, so only pass members can see what you took and what you put.  Fully confess your transgressions and you will be saved.   :biggrin:

QuoteJackal - 7/20/2010  4:42 PM

Yours wasn't so bad.  I could go on about an Air Bender and a Liga Privada T-52 that got replaced with a couple of CAOs if I felt like licking up some dust.

When that guy asks to join your pass, tell him its full.

Quotelowpro75 - 7/20/2010  9:48 AM

QuoteJackal - 7/20/2010  12:41 PM

I will throw in another one.  Don't use C-Bid or any other auction site as a yardstick.  Their prices get really out of whack.

I'm not sure I agree, especially on a brand like 5 Vegas, which is almost always available at a discount on cigarbid.  Can you explain your reasoning?

Almost always is the issue that I have.  The issue I see is someone comparing C-Bid to other pricing.  What I don't want to hear is someone saying something like "I saw those La Aurora Platinum Tubos for $5 on an auction".  Also, not all of us are auction goers.  Just because CI has a boatload of something and is clearancing it out via C-Bid, doesn't mean the rest of us are even aware of it.

Same goes for sampler packs.  Just because the 5-pack was $25 and contained a Tatuaje SW, and 4 Boardwalks, does not mean that the Tat was $5, or that the boardwalks were $5 either.

QuoteJackal - 7/20/2010  4:48 PM

Quotelowpro75 - 7/20/2010  9:48 AM

QuoteJackal - 7/20/2010  12:41 PM

I will throw in another one.  Don't use C-Bid or any other auction site as a yardstick.  Their prices get really out of whack.

I'm not sure I agree, especially on a brand like 5 Vegas, which is almost always available at a discount on cigarbid.  Can you explain your reasoning?

Almost always is the issue that I have.  The issue I see is someone comparing C-Bid to other pricing.  What I don't want to hear is someone saying something like "I saw those La Aurora Platinum Tubos for $5 on an auction".

Same goes for sampler packs.  Just because the 5-pack was $25 and contained a Tatuaje SW, and 4 Boardwalks, does not mean that the Tat was $5, or that the boardwalks were $5 either.

I see what you mean, I usually value my takes at the retail level and my puts at a lower level, so I don't run into that.  And I never take into account sampler pack price per cigar for just the reason you stated above.

QuoteBrlesq - 7/20/2010  12:27 PM

...The old Cigar Pass article says "Members should put back at least the same value as they are taking."  And I thought that meant that the value of the sticks we put in should exceed the value of the sticks we take out.  But from Jackal's latest Etiquette guide and some of the posts here, I now realize this means that a $12 stick should be replaced by another $12+ stick...not with two $6 or $7 sticks.  My bad! :banghead:

I understood it that way, too, until recently. If you don't believe me, go look at my first couple of passes. But I totally agree with Jason--if you start a pass with 5 super-premium sticks and 5 premiums, it really sucks if a month later your pass is down to 1 super-premium, no matter how many other sticks are in there...

So, yeah, I know I've screwed that up in the past. I may not be Catholic, but this is my confession...  :-(

QuoteJackal - 7/20/2010  4:48 PM

Quotelowpro75 - 7/20/2010  9:48 AM

QuoteJackal - 7/20/2010  12:41 PM

I will throw in another one.  Don't use C-Bid or any other auction site as a yardstick.  Their prices get really out of whack.

I'm not sure I agree, especially on a brand like 5 Vegas, which is almost always available at a discount on cigarbid.  Can you explain your reasoning?

Almost always is the issue that I have.  The issue I see is someone comparing C-Bid to other pricing.  What I don't want to hear is someone saying something like "I saw those La Aurora Platinum Tubos for $5 on an auction".  Also, not all of us are auction goers.  Just because CI has a boatload of something and is clearancing it out via C-Bid, doesn't mean the rest of us are even aware of it.

Same goes for sampler packs.  Just because the 5-pack was $25 and contained a Tatuaje SW, and 4 Boardwalks, does not mean that the Tat was $5, or that the boardwalks were $5 either.

Especially in samplers and combo deals! I got a really nice humidor and a 5-pk of Graycliff Profesionale PG's from Famous for $55.94 shipped back in February.  They currently sell the humi for $49.99 and the 5-pk for 50.04 plus shipping.  

I generally check CI, JR, Holt's and Famous for their "everyday" pricing when I try to determine the cash value of a cigar.  It's been almost a year since I've been in a true B&M.  I figure the bulk of us by from the major online players anyway and are accustomed to their pricing.

Quotecmmayo - 7/20/2010  4:57 PM

QuoteBrlesq - 7/20/2010  12:27 PM

...The old Cigar Pass article says "Members should put back at least the same value as they are taking."  And I thought that meant that the value of the sticks we put in should exceed the value of the sticks we take out.  But from Jackal's latest Etiquette guide and some of the posts here, I now realize this means that a $12 stick should be replaced by another $12+ stick...not with two $6 or $7 sticks.  My bad! :banghead:

I understood it that way, too, until recently. If you don't believe me, go look at my first couple of passes. But I totally agree with Jason--if you start a pass with 5 super-premium sticks and 5 premiums, it really sucks if a month later your pass is down to 1 super-premium, no matter how many other sticks are in there...

So, yeah, I know I've screwed that up in the past. I may not be Catholic, but this is my confession...  :-(

I think many of us can say "been there, done that" to this one.  It's all water under the bridge as far as I'm concerned.  I was raised a Southern Baptist, so the whole "confessional" thing is lost on me.  I'll just dance and have another beer! :dancing:  :beer: See y'all at church on Sunday!

QuoteJackal - 7/20/2010  4:42 PM

Yours wasn't so bad.  I could go on about an Air Bender and a Liga Privada T-52 that got replaced with a couple of CAOs if I felt like kicking up some dust.

That's not cool.   :mad:

Quotegitfiddl - 7/20/2010  4:20 PM

Quotecmmayo - 7/20/2010  4:57 PM

QuoteBrlesq - 7/20/2010  12:27 PM

...The old Cigar Pass article says "Members should put back at least the same value as they are taking."  And I thought that meant that the value of the sticks we put in should exceed the value of the sticks we take out.  But from Jackal's latest Etiquette guide and some of the posts here, I now realize this means that a $12 stick should be replaced by another $12+ stick...not with two $6 or $7 sticks.  My bad! :banghead:

I understood it that way, too, until recently. If you don't believe me, go look at my first couple of passes. But I totally agree with Jason--if you start a pass with 5 super-premium sticks and 5 premiums, it really sucks if a month later your pass is down to 1 super-premium, no matter how many other sticks are in there...

So, yeah, I know I've screwed that up in the past. I may not be Catholic, but this is my confession...  :-(

I think many of us can say "been there, done that" to this one.  It's all water under the bridge as far as I'm concerned.  I was raised a Southern Baptist, so the whole "confessional" thing is lost on me.  I'll just dance and have another beer! :dancing:  :beer: See y'all at church on Sunday!

Hey you must have grown up Southern Baptist like me...what w/ all the dancing and beer.  Seriously though I'm sure that some have judged my puts and takes from time to time and while we may not always live up to the expectations of everyone we meet, I can honestly say that I've always done my level best to only give my best in any pass that I've been a part of, and I hope that it doesn't offend.  I truly believe the old line that "To give less than your best is to sacrifice the gift" and I try to believe that those around me are giving their best as well.  Except when it is panfully apparent that they arent...

After reading this thread all day, some of the decisions I have made today seem justified.  I have attempted to make sound decisions in puts and takes in passes that I have participated in, and yes, maybe made some mistakes.  The subject of pass etiquette seems to keep coming up after months.  So, this morning I transitioned a pass with no puts or takes and asked to be removed from the 2 remaining passes that i had Joined in good faith.  In doing this it was in no disrespect to the moderators or other participants.

I think the main point of a pass is being missed here, in passing the collection to a BOTL to be able to partake of a cigar that he may not have had the opportunity and to have a little fun.  We have taken something that is supposed to be fun and turned it into a major event.  I do agree that in participating, showing respect of others in the pass that puts should be of equal or more than equal value.  

What i don't agree with is having to figure MSRP value vs CBID value figuring appreciation or depreciation + or - and/or having a cigar appraised to determine if its going to meet someone's approval, or having to get approval of your puts and takes prior to submission in order to ensure that everyone is happy.

I participate in this site because I enjoy it, and with that in mind will participate in passes when they are fun again.

QuoteDonM - 7/20/2010  7:26 PM

After reading this thread all day, some of the decisions I have made today seem justified.  I have attempted to make sound decisions in puts and takes in passes that I have participated in, and yes, maybe made some mistakes.  The subject of pass etiquette seems to keep coming up after months.  So, this morning I transitioned a pass with no puts or takes and asked to be removed from the 2 remaining passes that i had Joined in good faith.  In doing this it was in no disrespect to the moderators or other participants.

I think the main point of a pass is being missed here, in passing the collection to a BOTL to be able to partake of a cigar that he may not have had the opportunity and to have a little fun.  We have taken something that is supposed to be fun and turned it into a major event.  I do agree that in participating, showing respect of others in the pass that puts should be of equal or more than equal value.  
What i don't agree with is having to figure MSRP value vs CBID value figuring appreciation or depreciation + or - and/or having a cigar appraised to determine if its going to meet someone's approval, or having to get approval of your puts and takes prior to submission in order to ensure that everyone is happy.

I participate in this site because I enjoy it, and with that in mind will participate in passes when they are fun again.

Sorry if you were offended in any way by this sometimes spirited debate.  But you have to do what you feel is right and I'm sure everyone here respects your decision.

QuoteDonM - 7/20/2010  7:26 PM

After reading this thread all day, some of the decisions I have made today seem justified.  I have attempted to make sound decisions in puts and takes in passes that I have participated in, and yes, maybe made some mistakes.  The subject of pass etiquette seems to keep coming up after months.  So, this morning I transitioned a pass with no puts or takes and asked to be removed from the 2 remaining passes that i had Joined in good faith.  In doing this it was in no disrespect to the moderators or other participants.

I think the main point of a pass is being missed here, in passing the collection to a BOTL to be able to partake of a cigar that he may not have had the opportunity and to have a little fun.  We have taken something that is supposed to be fun and turned it into a major event.  I do agree that in participating, showing respect of others in the pass that puts should be of equal or more than equal value.  

What i don't agree with is having to figure MSRP value vs CBID value figuring appreciation or depreciation + or - and/or having a cigar appraised to determine if its going to meet someone's approval, or having to get approval of your puts and takes prior to submission in order to ensure that everyone is happy.

I participate in this site because I enjoy it, and with that in mind will participate in passes when they are fun again.

Don, you have shown nothing but class, a great sense of humor, and the sense of brotherhood this place thrives on.  I can say the same about everyone who has posted in this thread.  Don't let an innocent error (and I think it was exactly that, an innocent error; GOD KNOWS OUR CURRENT SECRETARY OF STATE HAS MORE DIPLOMATIC FAUX PAS TO HER CREDIT) and the comments made keep you from participating in what I think is the best freakin' place on the net to hang out.  We were all just trying to help.  If someone f**ks up a pass more than once, then PM his butt, let him know about it, don't send an invite for the next one and be done with it!

I agree we need to get back to the fun.  I vote that the Mods lock this thread and that we, as the friendly community we are move on.

There have been some ruffled feathers about passes recently.  I do think that this was good to let everyone let off some steam and get it out of their systems.  Now we can move on and enjoy ourselves again.

QuoteDonM - 7/20/2010  7:26 PM

After reading this thread all day, some of the decisions I have made today seem justified.  I have attempted to make sound decisions in puts and takes in passes that I have participated in, and yes, maybe made some mistakes.  The subject of pass etiquette seems to keep coming up after months.  So, this morning I transitioned a pass with no puts or takes and asked to be removed from the 2 remaining passes that i had Joined in good faith.  In doing this it was in no disrespect to the moderators or other participants.

I think the main point of a pass is being missed here, in passing the collection to a BOTL to be able to partake of a cigar that he may not have had the opportunity and to have a little fun.  We have taken something that is supposed to be fun and turned it into a major event.  I do agree that in participating, showing respect of others in the pass that puts should be of equal or more than equal value.  

What i don't agree with is having to figure MSRP value vs CBID value figuring appreciation or depreciation + or - and/or having a cigar appraised to determine if its going to meet someone's approval, or having to get approval of your puts and takes prior to submission in order to ensure that everyone is happy.

I participate in this site because I enjoy it, and with that in mind will participate in passes when they are fun again.

Don, you're definitely a great sport and I'm sorry if the thread may have bothered you.  I would hate to see you or any of the other members not participate in future Passes, because of some mistakes and misunderstandings.  I think you should definitely reconsider!!

Quotegitfiddl - 7/20/2010  8:30 PM

I agree we need to get back to the fun.  I vote that the Mods lock this thread and that we, as the friendly community we are move on.

I agree as well.  We have had relatively little problems (aside from a few outright thiefs who disappeared with some passes.)  I believe that any other "issues" are a matter of opinion and/or a lack of experience.  Both of which are fine.  Its what makes a diverse community and one who is always learning from each other.  Lets keep it friendly and move on.
-Paul

I for one would not have known that I was doing something wrong until this thread brought it to light.  I am grateful that I learned about my faux pas early on only my second pass rather than continuing to screw up and have anyone harbor silent resentment.  

I still feel bad that I messed up, but the support and kind words will get me through it. This thread was good therapy.  Hopefully I can redeem myself.

QuoteJackal - 7/20/2010  8:43 PM

There have been some ruffled feathers about passes recently.  I do think that this was good to let everyone let off some steam and get it out of their systems.  Now we can move on and enjoy ourselves again.

Well put Jason!  I think it time for us to all move on.  I think I'm inspired to start a new pass.  I'm going to call it the "First Post-cigarpass-etiquette-thread Pass"  

:biggrin: :biggrin:

Any ideas on a theme people???

Awwwww, come on, lets keep the shyt and gnashing of teeth going on!




 :biggrin:

Everyone join me, "Kumbaya.....".

 :biggrin:

Here is a quick idea - post the link to the etiquette article in your pass description.  Newer members will get the benefit of some of the rules, and vets can ignore it.  When I joined this site, I knew something about passes already, but some members have never done anything like it.  It is needed, but the most important part is to have fun.

wow...the things I miss when I'm out for the day...all the comments made and feelings expressed seemed quite respectful and positive to me. I think a good set of guidlines have been established and hope everyone continues to have fun with the passes.

Quotenwb - 7/20/2010  9:42 PM

Here is a quick idea - post the link to the etiquette article in your pass description. Newer members will get the benefit of some of the rules, and vets can ignore it. When I joined this site, I knew something about passes already, but some members have never done anything like it. It is needed, but the most important part is to have fun.

That is a great idea Nathan ... it makes the right info available where it's needed.

I love the idea of the cigar pass.  Reading this thread has been illuminating. There are so many truly selfless BOTLs here and I, for one, think the world of you.

For me, though, this is one reason I have not participated in any passes yet.  The value of a cigar is often not reflected in its price so much as in its less concrete characteristics, and the perceptions and experiences of the people involved. What constitutes a fair trade can be a very subjective thing, especially if the stick is unusual in some way - what I think is putting extra may be seen as questionable by others. And besides, my selection sucks so bad I'd have to hit the B&M to try to find appropriate puts anyway.  I will participate in a pass some day, but not yet ... unless someone starts a super-dogrocket pass  :biggrin:

I think stating clearly what is generally accepted behavior in a pass (or any community activity) is a good thing. It avoids the assumption that everyone "should" know what they are doing, and makes sure everyone is operating on the same guidelines.

Making sure everyone knows what to do ensures that EVERYONE can have fun. New members can be confident in joining a pass, and moderators can be sure a pass will go well.

What I am getting from this is:
1. Go into a pass with good intentions and consideration for other people in the pass.
2. Be generous (it's good karma anyways!)
3. If you have questions, ask! It's okay to ask!

Everyone makes mistakes, kudos to those who are awesome enough to own their mistakes! Now we can all move forward and continue to enjoy this great community. :shades:

Thanks Jackal for posting the etiquette article and this thread, which has helped clear the air on cigar pass issues, and provides guidance to new members for future passes.

My hat is off to the guys who posted in open forum mistakes they made that anyone could easily make.  Shows a lot of class!  :smoker2:

QuoteRebecca Silverwolf - 7/21/2010  2:01 AM

I think stating clearly what is generally accepted behavior in a pass (or any community activity) is a good thing. It avoids the assumption that everyone "should" know what they are doing, and makes sure everyone is operating on the same guidelines.

Making sure everyone knows what to do ensures that EVERYONE can have fun. New members can be confident in joining a pass, and moderators can be sure a pass will go well.

What I am getting from this is:
1. Go into a pass with good intentions and consideration for other people in the pass.
2. Be generous (it's good karma anyways!)
3. If you have questions, ask! It's okay to ask!

Everyone makes mistakes, kudos to those who are awesome enough to own their mistakes! Now we can all move forward and continue to enjoy this great community. :shades:

I think #3 above is overlooked far too often with regard to more than just cigar passes!

Quotegitfiddl - 7/21/2010  10:08 AM

QuoteRebecca Silverwolf - 7/21/2010  2:01 AM

I think stating clearly what is generally accepted behavior in a pass (or any community activity) is a good thing. It avoids the assumption that everyone "should" know what they are doing, and makes sure everyone is operating on the same guidelines.

Making sure everyone knows what to do ensures that EVERYONE can have fun. New members can be confident in joining a pass, and moderators can be sure a pass will go well.

What I am getting from this is:
1. Go into a pass with good intentions and consideration for other people in the pass.
2. Be generous (it's good karma anyways!)
3. If you have questions, ask! It's okay to ask!

Everyone makes mistakes, kudos to those who are awesome enough to own their mistakes! Now we can all move forward and continue to enjoy this great community. :shades:

I think #3 above is overlooked far too often with regard to more than just cigar passes!

Except for the few cases of outright thievery Paul mentioned, it seems the main reason for problems in cigar passes has been the lack of knowledge.

Including these rules of cigar pass etiquette along with any other clear and specific instructions would obviate much of the problems.  

Also, as mentioned elsewhere in this thread, whoever starts the pass should establish the measurement of perceived value, such as "the average of the regular posted price of one stick from a box at Famous, CI and JR as of 7/20/2010."   Ever better, the pivot man on any cigar pass should actually do the math and include the calculated prices for each stick in the box going out ... one or more special cigars in the pass should be featured and explained (believe it or not, there are newer cigar smokers out there who, as often as not, have no idea).

From what I read here, it seems clear that "honest mistakes" such as two $6 cigars don't equal a $12 cigar and other procedural rules, may not be intuitutively known, especially to the uninitiated.  

When you clearly spell it all out in writing out when you start your pass, the likelihood of problems is greatly deminished.

Seems like a good time for a

Here is Jackals article

http://www.cigargeeks.com/index.php?action=articles;sa=view;article=37

What we need is a cigar pass moderator etiquette !!

QuoteCfickter - 11/28/2015  8:29 AM

What we need is a cigar pass moderator etiquette !!

Yup