This question has come up a number of times, so I want to throw it out to the community.
How does one value an ISOM cigar in a pass? Do you take retail price and multiply it by something? Do you just use a gut feeling for its rarity?
Does anyone have a rule of thumb that they would like to share?
:smoker:
QuoteJackal - 6/24/2011 11:14 AM
This question has come up a number of times, so I want to throw it out to the community.
How does one value an ISOM cigar in a pass? Do you take retail price and multiply it by something? Do you just use a gut feeling for its rarity?
Does anyone have a rule of thumb that they would like to share?
:smoker:
Sadly, I haven't run into that problem... :-(
I am curious as to what the consensus is.
I tend to evaluate each ISOM differently.....
Current ISOM's I put a value of what I paid for them. Older aged ISOM's I look at the quality (rating) of the stick & typically add $1.50- $2.00 per year of aging plus what the current cost would be for that same cigar if it is still available.
Some of my sticks I consider as "off the charts" as far as value like as my 1999 HDM Double Corona's & the 1999 Partagas Luistania's due to the quality & rating of that vintage. Each of these is a full unopened box & because of that the value is incredible.....
When I pull an ISOM, I tend to add an ISOM of comparable cost and vintage. If you were putting in a NC instead, I would say something that is really hard to find or a top rated cigar of similar value would be acceptable.
Quotenwb - 6/24/2011 12:10 PM
When I pull an ISOM, I tend to add an ISOM of comparable cost and vintage. If you were putting in a NC instead, I would say something that is really hard to find or a top rated cigar of similar value would be acceptable.
This is my approach, too. IMHO, a CAO Black isn't equivalent to a BoliPC or Party Short, even if they might ostensibly have the same price next to them on some website somewhere.
Quotenwb - 6/24/2011 9:10 AM
When I pull an ISOM, I tend to add an ISOM of comparable cost and vintage. If you were putting in a NC instead, I would say something that is really hard to find or a top rated cigar of similar value would be acceptable.
I agree completely with prior posters. I think that an ISOM needs to have a value added $$ amount. The hassle to get them (in the US anyway), and the risk involved needs to be taken into consideration. If your box gets popped in transit, well you could easily kiss off $250. In the same vein, I would feel comfortable taking an ISOM from a pass and replacing it w/a Padron Anniversary or similar stick. Just my $.02.
My rule is to trade ISOM for ISOM unless I clear it with the pass owner. If I put in an ISOM for a NC stick I think its fair to add some $$ because of risk and degree of difficulty.
I usually 2X the value of the stick to account for the rarity and risk (you could face seizure of your sticks and possible penalties of up to $250,000 or 10 years in Federal Prison).
So a Bolivar that is listed on a sites at $12. I would put a $24 (online box price) Viaje, La Aurora, Fuente, Illusione limited edition, or the like.
I agree with Jason x2 the amount. It did not happend to me yet in a pass, but Im still new around these parts of the woods.
I ran across an ISOM in a recent pass that I was interested in, and before I took that ISOM, I contracted the pass admin to ask for his thought on value. I don't think I am ISOM savvy enough to determine proper value for them. For me, I think checking with the admin was the correct thing to do before taking the cigar and shipping the box.
For what it's worth, after discussing the cigar with the admin, I didn't think that I had enough of equal value of Non-ISOM, so chose to pass on taking the ISOM. After the admin saw my puts, he then messaged me and told me to go ahead and grab the desired ISOM. I thought that was pretty cool of him to do.
My approach is to look at the ISOM like my coon dog looks at a biscuit, whimper softly, then dry my tears and send the pass on with the ISOM still in it.
ISOMs in passes?? Wow, lucky guys. I don't know much about that stuff, but the posts above all sound like good advice.
I think its up to the pass moderator to lay out the rules on pulling an ISOM!
QuoteJackal - 6/24/2011 9:39 AM
I usually 2X the value of the stick to account for the rarity and risk (you could face seizure of your sticks and possible penalties of up to $250,000 or 10 years in Federal Prison).
So a Bolivar that is listed on a sites at $12. I would put a $24 (online box price) Viaje, La Aurora, Fuente, Illusione limited edition, or the like.
Just out of curiosity.....How would you value a highly rated $10 ISOM with 6-10 years of humi time on it? As far as I know other than Christies or Sotheby's (big bucks $$$) there's nowhere you can purchase a 6-10 year old ISOM......
My description was for still available cigars that had minimal age on them.
When you start getting into premium aged cigars, I have no good rule.
If There was a 6-10 year old Monte No.2 in a pass, I would have to consider either replacing it with a 6-10 year old super premium (High end Fuente, Diamond Crown, Patagas 150, Davidoff, etc) or something very rare such as a limited run, no longer available, premium.
Trying to assign $ values becomes futile. Rarity/ collectibility becomes the overriding factor.
Quoteherfdude - 6/24/2011 4:00 PM
QuoteJackal - 6/24/2011 9:39 AM
I usually 2X the value of the stick to account for the rarity and risk (you could face seizure of your sticks and possible penalties of up to $250,000 or 10 years in Federal Prison).
So a Bolivar that is listed on a sites at $12. I would put a $24 (online box price) Viaje, La Aurora, Fuente, Illusione limited edition, or the like.
Just out of curiosity.....How would you value a highly rated $10 ISOM with 6-10 years of humi time on it? As far as I know other than Christies or Sotheby's (big bucks $$$) there's nowhere you can purchase a 6-10 year old ISOM......
I would humbly submit that such a stick has no place in any other than a private pass where the details have been ironed out beforehand. I don't believe such sticks belong in passes intended for more general consumption. I know if I had such a beast it would stay in MY humi and go no place else!
QuoteAlphairon - 6/24/2011 10:38 AM
My approach is to look at the ISOM like my coon dog looks at a biscuit, whimper softly, then dry my tears and send the pass on with the ISOM still in it.
:lmao: :lmao: :lmao:
1st, I must thank Jason for letting a fairly new BOTL to CGs to join this pass.
This pass was stamped PRIVATE and I was not on the invitation list. I sent Jason a PM and asked him if I could be considered. He was most gracious and I was sent an invitation, again THANK YOU, (I think....)
I'm the one that PM Jason and asked about 1 of the ISOM in the Top Shelf Pass and his thoughts. He responded back, he thought it a good question to ask the CG community, I agree.
I have 2 ways to respond to this; both have no bearing that I'm in this pass. Just my thoughts on reading the thread,
If I put a ISOM in as a mediator or a participant it's to share ISOM that is unavailable to MOST pass participants. So what a great opportunity it would be to share that with a fellow BOTL. This not to say that a NC put in for the ISOM should not of equal value or rarity . Now, if I decided to put in a ISOM that I can't get any more and has been aging in my Humi for 7 years. Then I decide what a great treat to be offered to the pass participants without hanging all these other high valued labels on it so everyone afraid to think about taking it cuz there's nothing equal(NC)in their world to put in the pass.
I believe once I put a ISOM in the pass there should not be any additional qualifiers for that ISOM to be taken and a participants put a NC of equal value or rarity. If unsure of the value, a PM to the mediator would be in line. At that time he could make the call or contact the participant that put the ISOM in the pass. If you don't want to give up the ISMO of 10 years aged, no longer available for the pass 8 years and it should cost 2x the value of any NC. Then you should keep it and enjoy it.
Now, if the ISOM is a bomb/gift is for the mediator. Just stick a label on the stick with his name and don't list it as puts. At the end of the pass he will get the box, open it up and be surprise. All is good.
My 2nd thought/response is to by pass all this. LABLE the pass private and the member's invited know what the rules are to play. As did Jason, again THANKS for the opportunity to be apart of this pass.
So there is NO misunderstanding in my post. In no way has this upset me or bad feeling toward my CG BOTLs.
I will take my takes and put my puts and send the pass on its way by 6/27/11
AWSOME selection of CIGARS in this here pass.....
Interesting, what would the worth be to any isoms if one has never had an isom. How would that commodity be valued by a non isom. I am not talking about the limited editions or hard to get isoms but the accessible Cohiba to Huptmanns even if the value of the dollar was 5 to 30. Some of the isoms I have had were either 2 to 25 bucks and realistically that was the tourist price not North American price.
In theory....If I came across an ISOM, I would also drool and then let it go.... :cry:
I know I couldn't replace it properly....... :-(
I had absolutely no idea this thread was "Pass" specific. Any opinions expressed by me were absolutely not intended or directed at any CG member or related to any specific "Pass"....... :confused:
Quotecocon - 6/24/2011 7:12 PM
In theory....If I came across an ISOM, I would also drool and then let it go.... :cry:
I know I couldn't replace it properly....... :-(
I'm pretty much in the same boat as you and Ken on this... :confused:
:lmao:
No gents , it's not "Pass" specific. I asked. Jason took it to the group and I just explain why. simple
Quotesouthernpacifico - 6/24/2011 2:13 PM
I'm the one that PM Jason and asked about 1 of the ISOM in the Top Shelf Pass and his thoughts. He responded back, he thought it a good question to ask the CG community, I agree.
Jerry, I also sent a PM to Jason with a similar question on this pass. With the varying answers I am still not exactly sure what the answer is on ISOMs. I have asked a couple of times in passes if the moderator is okay with my puts and takes. As a moderator I have been asked the same question a couple of times, myself. If you don't feel sure, I think it is perfectly appropriate to run puts and takes by the moderator and for the moderator to respond honestly. I'd much rather someone point out to me that a cigar is very rare or that maybe I made a mistake when I looked up its value than have them be quiet and think poorly of me.
How about an isom only pass now that would be interesting....just think of the possibilities.
Quotehorrido - 6/25/2011 10:38 AM
How about an isom only pass now that would be interesting....just think of the possibilities.
It has been done a couple of times, and it is awesome.
Quotehorrido - 6/25/2011 7:38 AM
How about an isom only pass now that would be interesting....just think of the possibilities.
I'm in! :shades:
Well, I guess the mail strike needs to end soon....and thinking seriously to do it.