You're still right Bruce... Puff has been around for years and has changed names and used different domains... this one in particular which has caused issues in operation... signing on.... losing passwords.... etc. Cigar bum as well as several others came to fruition as a result of the explosion of coming into the cigar forums world... I had recently for the last couple of years been a senior Puff moderator before resigning because of things I couldn't support... I'm still a member there and enjoy the comraderie but not the political BS. Don't let that stop anybody from enjoying a Cigar Forum .. there's good and bad in most.... except for this one which I can honestly say CG is unique and the best.