A Second Question of Taste

[Ghuskey]

Thanks to those who responded to my question about cedar. Now here's another:
I often get the sensation of a cloak around the front of my tongue. It's oily, bitter, and acidic, and I dislike it. What is it? Pepper perhaps?

[headfirst]

Pepper wouldn't be bitter in my opinion, just spicy exactly the way you would think it to be.  The pepper can hit anywhere in my experience, tip or back of tongue, or often times back of the throat.

This may be the tobacco or its' byproducts?  Ligero has a bitterness to it in my experience.  I'm also not a big fan of the black coffee flavors and what you describe sortof sounds like that as well.

Which cigars do you get that flavor on?

[ninfiction]

Sometimes you'll get some bitterness if you're smoking too fast too. The slower the better, I try to puff about once a minute...sometimes more but I am a really slow smoker.

Gary is right, you'll know pepper when you taste it, it's exactly like pepper. I'm curious too which cigar you smoked that you got those flavors from.

[MacMac]

I'd be interested to know the cigar giving this sensation.

[Ghuskey]

Rocky Patels start out that way for me, as did the Romeo Clemenceau in Tubo.

[Ghuskey]

Because of the first 2 responses to my post, I did 2 things. First I tasted some black pepper placed on my finger. Ah, now I know what that is and why I see it so often mentioned in reviews.
Second, I listened to Bryan Glenn of CigarObsession to see what he said about some of the cigars in which I found this characteristic: the H. Uppman Legacy, La Gloria Cubana Serie R Esteli, Montecristo Monte, and Rocky Patel 1990 (I love the 1990, BTW), and he used the same word in each case - "oily."

[Rebecca Silverwolf]

That may also be what people will call "leathery" or "heavy" or "chewy".

[Cfickter]

Don't put the lit end in your mouth

[headfirst]

After thinking about this some more I have had this happen and I had figured out it was the literal taste of the wrapper/cap transferring from my lips to tip of the tongue, not from the actual smoke.  It faded as the cigar progressed.

[StogieDad]

Cfickter - 4/3/2016  9:18 PM

Don't put the lit end in your mouth

[Gustoff]

Hearing someone try to describe a flavor profile is always entertaining to read/hear.

[Ghuskey]

Leather, this might be called? That occurred to me. So, in your own words, students, describe "leather."

[ninfiction]

Leather is a tough one to describe, I often taste it but it's more of a sensation or feeling than an actual flavor for me. I think Rebecca is spot on, it's more a mouth feel.

[Cfickter]

Leather is a taste that is associated with the smell we are all familiar with.  While it can be an honest reference it has little to do with what are tasting.  Come on, when was the last time you had your belt in your mouth? (or maybe I don't want to know)

[Jackal]

Cfickter - 4/4/2016  10:36 AM

Leather is a taste that is associated with the smell we are all familiar with.  While it can be an honest reference it has little to do with what are tasting.  Come on, when was the last time you had your belt in your mouth? (or maybe I don't want to know)

You got that right Chuck.  You don't want to know.

[Jackal]

With Leather you are talking about flavor rather than taste.

I will repost what I mentioned in the Cedar thread:

"Remember that flavor is a combination of taste, scent, trigeminal reaction, rheology and umani perception, with scent actually being the overriding factor."

Taste is just one aspect of flavor.  The olfactory contribution is huge as well as mouth feel.  These two factors are giving you the perception of a leather flavor rather than actual taste.

[Rebecca Silverwolf]

It is important to remember that these flavors are not necessarily overt. When you are smoking a cigar, you are not tasting woods, fruits, coffee, or whatnot. You are tasting tobacco smoke. (Infused cigars aside.) What is then happening is the myriad of chemicals that make up the smoke are stimulating receptors in your nose and mouth that are sending signals to your brain. Your brain then associates those combinations of signals with other scents and flavors that you are familiar with. Different brains will have different associations, which is why you can get different people with completely different flavor perceptions on the exact same cigar.

If you want to know what "leather" flavor is in a cigar, walk into a good leather shop and inhale deeply. Breathe through your mouth, even. No, you aren't putting the leather into your mouth (the store clerks might get upset if you try that) but you will get a sensation of flavor.

[Jackal]

Rebecca Silverwolf - 4/4/2016  1:51 PM

walk into a good leather shop and inhale deeply. Breathe through your mouth, even. No, you aren't putting the leather into your mouth (the store clerks might get upset if you try that) but you will get a sensation of flavor.

And people wonder why I am not welcome in certain fetish shops anymore  

[Mojo66]

I'm curious Greg, do you drink anything while smoking. I drink lots of water when smoking and it helps rinse out and also enhances my perceptions of the flavours, at least I think it does...

I kinda got what I think you're describing when I started smoking and again when I was properly introduced to NCs. I remember I had to scale back on strength and even body, start with smoother, lighter and milder cigars and work my way up.

I had tried stronger cigars at first, but simply did not appreciate them. Only after acclimating my palate and gradually increasing strength and body was I able to fully come to enjoy the stronger and more complex ones, and not even all of them at that. Some still leave a taste I don't care for while they please others.

If all else fails, there is always that old saying: "Smoke what you like, like what you smoke"

[MacMac]

Mojo66 - 4/4/2016  6:34 PM

Only after acclimating my palate and gradually increasing strength and body was I able to fully come to enjoy the stronger and more complex ones

I agree! Smoking cigars is an acquired liking that requires acclimation like coffee or wine.
I began with infused cigars and while I still like them, I have acquired the taste for stronger cigars, too. When I started smoking I just assumed I'd always smoke infused cigars, but that changed.

[Ghuskey]

Jason asked what I drink while smoking. In the evening I drink a bourbon or scotch on the rocks, or sometimes an aged rum, neat. In the morning, if I smoke then (and I do like smoking in the morning on the deck!), I drink black coffee. Between the four beverages, I think coffee works best for me, well, at least as far as complimenting the cigar goes.
    This morning I am enjoying coffee with a Padron 3000, and I bring this up for a reason. Yesterday I smoked a Padron 6000 and a 3000 purchased from the same store 4 months ago. I liked neither and said so in my reviews. Now I'm embarrassed to admit that this 3000 (purchased elsewhere) tastes great! Grrrrr... ! Is it common to respond differently to the same cigar purchased at different times or from different stores?

[Rebecca Silverwolf]

Ghuskey - 4/5/2016  9:55 AM

Jason asked what I drink while smoking. In the evening I drink a bourbon or scotch on the rocks, or sometimes an aged rum, neat. In the morning, if I smoke then (and I do like smoking in the morning on the deck!), I drink black coffee. Between the four beverages, I think coffee works best for me, well, at least as far as complimenting the cigar goes.
    This morning I am enjoying coffee with a Padron 3000, and I bring this up for a reason. Yesterday I smoked a Padron 6000 and a 3000 purchased from the same store 4 months ago. I liked neither and said so in my reviews. Now I'm embarrassed to admit that this 3000 (purchased elsewhere) tastes great! Grrrrr... ! Is it common to respond differently to the same cigar purchased at different times or from different stores?

There could be some major differences in how old the cigars are or the conditions in which they were stored. Either or both of those factors could affect the experience you have with that cigar. Also, as it is a handmade product, individual sticks can have some variation in the blend. (For example, Jackal and I both had a cigar from the same box at the same time, and there was excess ligero in his, making it harsh and peppery instead of the smooth smoke I had.)

So, yes, there could be enough differences between the sticks purchased at different times and places to give you a very different experience. Not sure if I would call it common or not, but it does happen.

[Jackal]

Rebecca Silverwolf - 4/5/2016  2:43 PM

Ghuskey - 4/5/2016  9:55 AM

Jason asked what I drink while smoking. In the evening I drink a bourbon or scotch on the rocks, or sometimes an aged rum, neat. In the morning, if I smoke then (and I do like smoking in the morning on the deck!), I drink black coffee. Between the four beverages, I think coffee works best for me, well, at least as far as complimenting the cigar goes.
    This morning I am enjoying coffee with a Padron 3000, and I bring this up for a reason. Yesterday I smoked a Padron 6000 and a 3000 purchased from the same store 4 months ago. I liked neither and said so in my reviews. Now I'm embarrassed to admit that this 3000 (purchased elsewhere) tastes great! Grrrrr... ! Is it common to respond differently to the same cigar purchased at different times or from different stores?

There could be some major differences in how old the cigars are or the conditions in which they were stored. Either or both of those factors could affect the experience you have with that cigar. Also, as it is a handmade product, individual sticks can have some variation in the blend. (For example, Jackal and I both had a cigar from the same box at the same time, and there was excess ligero in his, making it harsh and peppery instead of the smooth smoke I had.)

So, yes, there could be enough differences between the sticks purchased at different times and places to give you a very different experience. Not sure if I would call it common or not, but it does happen.

What was funny was that there shouldn't have been any ligero in that particular liga.  Just goes to show that a leaf can sometimes get put into the wrong bin during/ after sorting.

[Ghuskey]

Gary stated, "After thinking about this some more I have had this happen and I had figured out it was the literal taste of the wrapper/cap transferring from my lips to tip of the tongue, not from the actual smoke. It faded as the cigar progressed."

Gary, that may be the issue. I was at a cigar bar two nights ago, asked the "humidorian" (I made up that term just now) about this experience, and he stated just what you did. He has experienced the same and recommended that when I do get that sensation of a burning cloak over my tongue, I should snip off another quarter-inch.

[Jackal]

Ghuskey - 4/7/2016  9:21 AM

Chuck stated, "After thinking about this some more I have had this happen and I had figured out it was the literal taste of the wrapper/cap transferring from my lips to tip of the tongue, not from the actual smoke. It faded as the cigar progressed."

Chuck, that may be the issue. I was at a cigar bar two nights ago, asked the "humidorian" (I made up that term just now) about this experience, and he stated just what you did. He has experienced the same and recommended that when I do get that sensation of a burning cloak over my tongue, I should snip off another quarter-inch.

That way he sells more cigars  

Are you a wet smoker?  Some people at the end of a smoke have an almost completely dry cigar foot.  With some, it looks like they soaked the cigar in saliva.  Those wet smokers are going to get a lot of wet tobacco extract getting into their mouths where dry smokers primarily are tasting the smoke.