Rant : Internet Cigars vs B&M Cigars

[Ted]

junglepete - 3/12/2019  12:28 PM  ... 

 I agree that it would be cool if the labels of every cigar had a very small print on it identifying the year of the crop.

 I'd be happy with a boxing date, but hell yeah. The only NC I know that dates is Tat, any others?

[headfirst]

I just discovered that Esteban Carreras puts a manufactured date and a boxing date on theirs after buying a box of theirs for the first time...

[headfirst]

The one nagging thought I have in reading through this is stuff like the $2 La Palinas and A. Flores that have shown up online.  Are those a lesser cigar under the same band versus the much different price point of a year or two prior?  Or is it just overproduction and certain websites have a green light to go cheap to move the stock?  I know with the A. Flores it started with the corojo I believe, then the habano a few months later, then the maduro, etc.  As for La Palina, for a while it was only cigarpage that offered the slashed pricing, and I noticed CI has started making the same blends available at similar price reductions on specials.

As far as local B&M's, I rarely visit them here in California because the tobacco tax is among the highest in the country, and then there's a 10% sales tax on top.  They have no chance of coming even close to the price points online.  Call me cheap if you want to but I'm not going to pay $15-$20 before sales tax for a Diamond Crown when I can get it for $5-$8 online...I'm not exaggerating.  I also feel pretty self conscious when I'm in one that I should buy something because I'm one of the only people setting foot in the place, and I've actually been kicked out of one for not picking something fast enough even though it looked like a high end place.  I think the free market for tobacco on the internet is the next thing that will be systematically attacked by the anti-tobacco movers and shakers (and CA seems to lead the country in that regard) so I'm pouncing now while there's a window of opportunity.  As it is I won't shop at small batch anymore because they're charging the CA tax to CA residents now.  Just a matter of time in my opinion...

[arrow34]

headfirst - 3/13/2019  1:14 AM

The one nagging thought I have in reading through this is stuff like the $2 La Palinas and A. Flores that have shown up online.  Are those a lesser cigar under the same band versus the much different price point of a year or two prior?  Or is it just overproduction and certain websites have a green light to go cheap to move the stock?  I know with the A. Flores it started with the corojo I believe, then the habano a few months later, then the maduro, etc.  As for La Palina, for a while it was only cigarpage that offered the slashed pricing, and I noticed CI has started making the same blends available at similar price reductions on specials.

As far as local B&M's, I rarely visit them here in California because the tobacco tax is among the highest in the country, and then there's a 10% sales tax on top.  They have no chance of coming even close to the price points online.  Call me cheap if you want to but I'm not going to pay $15-$20 before sales tax for a Diamond Crown when I can get it for $5-$8 online...I'm not exaggerating.  I also feel pretty self conscious when I'm in one that I should buy something because I'm one of the only people setting foot in the place, and I've actually been kicked out of one for not picking something fast enough even though it looked like a high end place.  I think the free market for tobacco on the internet is the next thing that will be systematically attacked by the anti-tobacco movers and shakers (and CA seems to lead the country in that regard) so I'm pouncing now while there's a window of opportunity.  As it is I won't shop at small batch anymore because they're charging the CA tax to CA residents now.  Just a matter of time in my opinion...

I had that same thought on the A. Flores, but I hadn't had the first release or the should I say full priced release after it got the nod from Cigar Aficionado.  I would think that they overproduced the cigar thinking it would sell like so many do when CA says it is good.  I can say that I like the $2 A.flores SP52 and SP56, the A. Flores 1975 Gran Reserva Corojo too.  

As for the La Palinas, I have been getting the Reds and Black versions for a reasonable price for the last three years?  I remember the 2 boxes Cbid did for like $100?  So prices for the Red and Black have been low.  I gotta say,I would like the Nicaragua Oscuro version to go on sale :)

[Cfickter]

Ted - 3/12/2019  3:44 PM  

junglepete - 3/12/2019  12:28 PM  ... 

 I agree that it would be cool if the labels of every cigar had a very small print on it identifying the year of the crop.

 I'd be happy with a boxing date, but hell yeah. The only NC I know that dates is Tat, any others?

Very few others do. (steps up on soapbox)
An Alec Bradley Fine & Rare has more information on the band than any cigar I am aware of.  Including things like what issue number it is, roll date, release date, weekly production #, supervisor's name, approved by name, roller's name
The Gurkha 15 Year Cellar Reserve refers to the age of the Dominican filler. 
The Tat Cojonu series refers to the release date 
the LFD 1994 refers to the start date of Litto Gomez's cigar career
So the dates now on cigars can be confusing 

For the bulk of the cigars being produced it is not practical to put dates on the bands. it is an added cost, although somewhat minimal, but constantly changing.  The tobacco they use to roll this years Brazilia GOL will not the same as next years, so another new band.  Plus these cigars can flow thru inventory quickly, Will you really be excited to get that 2012 box of Macanudo Hyde Parks? 

And even if they would add a date what do you add?  Release date, roll date, tobacco age?  

Just not practical, let the cigars that deserve to have a date recognition do it, the rest can just go on doing what they do now. 

[arrow34]

Cfickter -  I actually would like it if they put a year on the cigar release!  I have had instances where I had one box of a cigar and a year later, got a newer release(thinking it was the same) and it was different.  But... if they did do that, it would make the releases more like a wine vintage :)  We wouldn't be guessing on the release year....  I think it would be a good thing though, considering a lot of us buy and age/store(even if by accident and buying too many other cigars)

[Cfickter]

arrow34 - 3/13/2019  8:14 AM  Cfickter -  I actually would like it if they put a year on the cigar release!  I have had instances where I had one box of a cigar and a year later, got a newer release(thinking it was the same) and it was different.  But... if they did do that, it would make the releases more like a wine vintage :)  We wouldn't be guessing on the release year....  I think it would be a good thing though, considering a lot of us buy and age/store(even if by accident and buying too many other cigars)

Ed, I would agree with that only for higher end cigars.  If this were possible I would prefer to see the rolled date or crop year as these would give a better indication as the age of the cigar.  But I am not sure I would change my mind on buying a cigar just because of this date. I just don't see manufactures doing this.  It could cause an inventory nightmare.  Remember that in 2017 the US imported 300 million cigars, take that into consideration and add what is still rolled here.  it is a lot to track 

90%+ of the cigars out there (most Generals, Altidias, DE Acids and all other flavored cigars, Victor Sinclair, 99.9% of Gurkha, etc...) don't need one and even more don't deserve one.  Plus 90%+ of smokers won't care.  We are a unique bunch @ Geeks, that can even have a discussion like this.

[arrow34]

I know!  It would be a nightmare!  I agree most wouldn't know the difference and wouldn't really care.  Also agreed that higher end ones should have box codes like Cubans do.  I do remember the total and was pretty proud that American consume that much in the way of cigars.  I do my fair share :)  


Funny how this rant has changed into a discussion of tracking/wishing for more information on cigars.  I, like many here, probably.... research the crap out of cigars when considering what to buy and even consider the blend, where it might be made, etc.  I have been luck too when just buying on impulse...  but also have been let down after doing a ton of research only to be let down by the hype and my own expectations.  

Either way.  This is what keeps us coming back for more and really enjoying this hobby.  The variety and the flavors that cigars are able to bring into our lives.  I can honestly say that in the last 5 years or a bit more, the variety of sticks coming out and the blends has really been amazing. At least for me, 20 years ago when I started, there were main brands that were ok, not really taking risks with blends and playing it safe.  I also didn't have the means to buy anything really top shelf back then and my buying habits/tastes have changed and my budget for sticks has expanded to allow me to try new stuff.  But I would say better cigars have become more reasonably priced.  Yes there will always be sticks that are out of comfortable box purchase range(because I am cheap sometimes) but can be in single or fiver purchase range(Plasencia, OpusX, Davidoff, god of fire, special release Cubans, etc,etc)

[headfirst]

My comment on Esteban Carreras was actually just that there was that info on the box, not the cigar band.  It's unusual for me to see that info even on the box.

Ed on the La Palinas I guess I was looking at what CI and others were charging for them (~$5 minimum) versus what cigarpage has been doing with them recently.  Others like CI slowly are coming around on the red/black/classic prices but there has seemed to be a big disparity in pricing on them until recently.

I'm curious on that Oscuro as well.  If it's anything like A. Flores it's probably just a waiting game...

[arrow34]

headfirst - 3/13/2019  8:37 AM

My comment on Esteban Carreras was actually just that there was that info on the box, not the cigar band.  It's unusual for me to see that info even on the box.

Ed on the La Palinas I guess I was looking at what CI and others were charging for them (~$5 minimum) versus what cigarpage has been doing with them recently.  Others like CI slowly are coming around on the red/black/classic prices but there has seemed to be a big disparity in pricing on them until recently.

I'm curious on that Oscuro as well.  If it's anything like A. Flores it's probably just a waiting game...

Gary, I agree that the prices have dropped like a rock on the La Palinas red/black/classics.  Since coming out in 2015ish, they haven't done that well from what I have seen, they are a decent cigar, but not amazing.  I too have noticed that some sites still try to peddle them for $5 a stick vs the $2 of recent deals.  I have smoked my way through about four boxes of various sizes of the reds and two at least of the blacks(still have half a box left).  I liked them at the time,but for the price, have found better sticks.  So I am not that surprised on the prices.  I haven't really seen them in most B&M stores either, in my market.  I still think they have a beautiful band and can be a change of pace vs my more full bodied sticks.

Most places are still charging really high prices on the A. Flores SP series.  It does make me wonder if we are getting rebranded sticks, especially with how simple the band is on the SP52/SP56, almost looks too cheaply made, but when viewing it on other sites, it looks just as cheap.... EDIT - actually some sites seem to have an older band that looks a bit nicer... so who knows.


See from 2012 - http://www.acigarsmoker.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/IMG_1213.jpg
See from 2013 - http://www.stogieguys.com/2013/09/09252013-cigar-review-a-flores-serie-privada-capa-habano-robusto.html

I will keep an eye on the Oscuro, i have had a few of those and still do. They are a tasty stick.