Pissed off With Atlantic Cigars!!!

[junglepete]

No need to lock the thread here. It is a good piece of information. Sorry to hear about your plight Excel, but happy to hear it was resolved. Nothing is more frustrating than not being satisfied.

[cmmayo]

I love a happy ending  

[metalhead y cigarguy]

As someone who used to work retail management I hated the motto, "the customer is always right."  Sure I would always do my best to satisfy their needs and resolve the issue, but some customers would always push the issue and want even more of a hand out. You can't please them all, and sometimes you have to stay firm with policy. Losing a customer is never good, but keeping a bad customer is not good either.

Glad your situation worked out for you.

[whodeeni]

cmmayo - 5/26/2010  12:57 AM

I love a happy ending  

[ratboy]

metalhead y cigarguy - 5/26/2010  1:48 AM

As someone who used to work retail management I hated the motto, "the customer is always right."  Sure I would always do my best to satisfy their needs and resolve the issue, but some customers would always push the issue and want even more of a hand out. You can't please them all, and sometimes you have to stay firm with policy. Losing a customer is never good, but keeping a bad customer is not good either.

Glad your situation worked out for you.

I am with you on this. We actually did a study at one time that we spent over 75% of our time with the bottom 25% of our paying customers. We actually got to a point that we "fired" customers. There business simply wasn't worth the time and effort needed to satisfy them when that time and effort could be spent satisfying and producing significantly more revenue with our bigger customers. We would kindly point them to someone better suited to help them with their needs.

[nwb]

ratboy - 5/26/2010  11:52 AM

I am with you on this. We actually did a study at one time that we spent over 75% of our time with the bottom 25% of our paying customers. We actually got to a point that we "fired" customers. There business simply wasn't worth the time and effort needed to satisfy them when that time and effort could be spent satisfying and producing significantly more revenue with our bigger customers. We would kindly point them to someone better suited to help them with their needs.

Classic 80-20 rule.  You don't happen to work in Financial Services, do you?

The only problem with that logic is we live in a world where forum/blogging can really make or break a company.  If one of those bottom 20 is inclined to do so, they can really tarnish your reputation, especially if they are well regarded in their social circles.  Just my .02.

nwb

[ratboy]

nwb - 5/26/2010  10:39 AM

ratboy - 5/26/2010  11:52 AM

I am with you on this. We actually did a study at one time that we spent over 75% of our time with the bottom 25% of our paying customers. We actually got to a point that we "fired" customers. There business simply wasn't worth the time and effort needed to satisfy them when that time and effort could be spent satisfying and producing significantly more revenue with our bigger customers. We would kindly point them to someone better suited to help them with their needs.

Classic 80-20 rule.  You don't happen to work in Financial Services, do you?

The only problem with that logic is we live in a world where forum/blogging can really make or break a company.  If one of those bottom 20 is inclined to do so, they can really tarnish your reputation, especially if they are well regarded in their social circles.  Just my .02.

nwb

Yep, financial services. I agree with what you are saying but I have noticed people are amazingly forgiving if your product is making them money. Luckily we don't actually work with the general public, just brokers and registered reps but we just wont work with low producing reps whenever we can. When we would have somebody with a $10,000 account tying up a CSR for an hour meanwhile a multimillion dollar producer is on hold and getting angrier by the minute we are willing to risk it. I'm actually in IT but pick up tidbits from a lot of our sales guys. Its unfortunate that we would voluntarily get rid of customers but its a fact of our industry.

[ROTHNH]

Back in college in the late 60's, I worked a few summers for an old guy who managed a shoe store for a chain that actually manufactured their own line of shoes and sold them in their own stores (Knapp) as well as to large customers like Sears.  He had the following mantra:

"It takes us at least 10 good, satisfied customers to make up for the damage we cause when we allow a single customer to walk out who's unhappy with our product or service."

When you "drop" the little guy or piss him off in some way, he's the lodge brother, the Church member, the regular at your local bar with the bad taste in his mouth who reminds everyone how terribly your establishment treats customers.

[Dave S.]

ROTHNH - 5/26/2010  10:03 AM

. . . He had the following mantra: "It takes us at least 10 good, satisfied customers to make up for the damage we cause when we allow a single customer to walk out who's unhappy with our product or service."

When you "drop" the little guy or piss him off in some way, he's the lodge brother, the Church member, the regular at your local bar with the bad taste in his mouth who reminds everyone how terribly your establishment treats customers.

In this age of hyper-marketing, word-of-mouth is still very, very important.

[ratboy]

ROTHNH - 5/26/2010  11:03 AM

Back in college in the late 60's, I worked a few summers for an old guy who managed a shoe store for a chain that actually manufactured their own line of shoes and sold them in their own stores (Knapp) as well as to large customers like Sears.  He had the following mantra:

"It takes us at least 10 good, satisfied customers to make up for the damage we cause when we allow a single customer to walk out who's unhappy with our product or service."

When you "drop" the little guy or piss him off in some way, he's the lodge brother, the Church member, the regular at your local bar with the bad taste in his mouth who reminds everyone how terribly your establishment treats customers.

I don't know that I believe this any more. I think it is still the case in small businesses but in large businesses I don't think they care. They basically say, if you don't like it you can go that other guy that gives equally shiatty customer service. IMHO there are far more examples of companies that give really, really crappy customer service than good ones. Airlines, cell phone companies, banks, bars/restaurants, government etc...  All have gone down hill in customer service in my lifetime and yet they aren't going out of business. In many cases they are thriving.

[ratboy]

nwb - 5/26/2010  10:39 AM

ratboy - 5/26/2010  11:52 AM

I am with you on this. We actually did a study at one time that we spent over 75% of our time with the bottom 25% of our paying customers. We actually got to a point that we "fired" customers. There business simply wasn't worth the time and effort needed to satisfy them when that time and effort could be spent satisfying and producing significantly more revenue with our bigger customers. We would kindly point them to someone better suited to help them with their needs.

Classic 80-20 rule.  You don't happen to work in Financial Services, do you?

The only problem with that logic is we live in a world where forum/blogging can really make or break a company.  If one of those bottom 20 is inclined to do so, they can really tarnish your reputation, especially if they are well regarded in their social circles.  Just my .02.

nwb

True but millionaires tend to hang around with other millionaires. People that don't have that net worth usually don't. The big guys are the ones we worry about. I don't condone it, especially from a selfish position because I'm much closer to the latter than the former but its simply a fact of life.

[ROTHNH]

ratboy - 5/26/2010  1:26 PM

I don't know that I believe this any more. I think it is still the case in small businesses but in large businesses I don't think they care. they basically say, if you dont like it you can go that other guy that gives equally shiatty customer service. IMHO there are far more examples of companies that give really, really crappy customer service than good ones. Airlines, cell phone companies, banks, bars/restaurants, etc...all have gone down hill in customer service in my lifetime and yet they aren't going out of business. In many cases they are thriving.

I think that view, with all due respect, is taking the proverbial ostrich head in the sand perspective.

In fact, I believe it's more true than ever now -- especially with social media like Facebook, Twitter, etc. -- that among true business professionals and with experts in the academic world that track such things -- where everyone is scrutinized and hundreds of millions of people know what the Japanese Chairman of Toyota said this afternoon and what Ashton Kutcher had for breakfast as soon as it happens -- businesses are (or should be) on top of how they treat their customers and what their customers think about them in order to succeed.

[Dave S.]

There will always be exceptions; however, generally speaking, poor customer service hurts businesses that compete in niche markets and those that provide a differentiated product or service.  Generally speaking, customer service is less a factor among businesses that compete with price leadership (low prices).

[ratboy]

ratboy - 5/26/2010  11:59 AM

ROTHNH - 5/26/2010  11:49 AM

ratboy - 5/26/2010  1:26 PM

I don't know that I believe this any more. I think it is still the case in small businesses but in large businesses I don't think they care. they basically say, if you dont like it you can go that other guy that gives equally shiatty customer service. IMHO there are far more examples of companies that give really, really crappy customer service than good ones. Airlines, cell phone companies, banks, bars/restaurants, etc...all have gone down hill in customer service in my lifetime and yet they aren't going out of business. In many cases they are thriving.

I think that view, with all due respect, is taking the proverbial ostrich head in the sand perspective.

In fact, I believe it's more true than ever now -- especially with social media like Facebook, Twitter, etc. -- that among true business professionals and with experts in the academic world that track such things -- where everyone is scrutinized and hundreds of millions of people know what the Japanese Chairman of Toyota said this afternoon and what Ashton Kutcher had for breakfast as soon as it happens -- businesses are (or should be) on top of how they treat their customers and what their customers think about them in order to succeed.

Has anyone been on an airline, called your cellphone carrier, cable carrier,  tried to talk to a person on the phone at the bank lately? We have more access to more ways to complain than ever, not to mention the ability to reach a wider audience yet CS continues to decline. Please give me one example of a large corporation that has been seriously hurt by their crappy customer service? I honestly cant think  of one. Every year there are top 10 lists published with the customer service corporations and year after year its the exact same list. AT&T, Verizon, any airline, US Bank, Wellsfargo, Chilis, TGI Fridays, Fidelity,  etc.... all of these places have facebook pages, twitter pages, articles, websites,etc... dedicated to warn people of their crappy customer service yet no real impact on their bottom line has occurred due to their issues.

[Jackal]

ROTHNH - 5/26/2010  10:49 AM

ratboy - 5/26/2010  1:26 PM

I don't know that I believe this any more. I think it is still the case in small businesses but in large businesses I don't think they care. they basically say, if you dont like it you can go that other guy that gives equally shiatty customer service. IMHO there are far more examples of companies that give really, really crappy customer service than good ones. Airlines, cell phone companies, banks, bars/restaurants, etc...all have gone down hill in customer service in my lifetime and yet they aren't going out of business. In many cases they are thriving.

I think that view, with all due respect, is taking the proverbial ostrich head in the sand perspective.

In fact, I believe it's more true than ever now -- especially with social media like Facebook, Twitter, etc. -- that among true business professionals and with experts in the academic world that track such things -- where everyone is scrutinized and hundreds of millions of people know what the Japanese Chairman of Toyota said this afternoon and what Ashton Kutcher had for breakfast as soon as it happens -- businesses are (or should be) on top of how they treat their customers and what their customers think about them in order to succeed.

I think that with the social media boom, we have become oversaturated with information.  There is always someone bitching about quality, customer service, etc.  I think that, for the most part, it falls on deaf ears.

It is like car alarms. When someone hears one, no one thinks "hey that guy's car is being stolen"  they think "I wish someone would turn that damn thing off".

Even hearing, about Excel's bad luck with Atlantic, people like Eddie and I who have used them are probably not going to be dissuaded.  It would take a pretty catastrophic story to do so.

Even when issues are close to home, rarely will people be swayed.  I complain constantly about Northwest Airlines.  That doesn't stop my coworkers from using them if their schedule is convenient.  One of my coworkers was stranded and abandoned by United in Denver.  That won't stop me from using them.

Even if Atlantic had screwed up worse and tomorrow had a deal of a Dozen Gurkha Centurions for $20, I would take the risk.

[Dave S.]

Jackal - 5/26/2010  11:28 AM

. . . I think that with the social media boom, we have become oversaturated with information . . . .

  !!!!!

[ratboy]

Jackal - 5/26/2010  12:28 PM

ROTHNH - 5/26/2010  10:49 AM

ratboy - 5/26/2010  1:26 PM

I don't know that I believe this any more. I think it is still the case in small businesses but in large businesses I don't think they care. they basically say, if you dont like it you can go that other guy that gives equally shiatty customer service. IMHO there are far more examples of companies that give really, really crappy customer service than good ones. Airlines, cell phone companies, banks, bars/restaurants, etc...all have gone down hill in customer service in my lifetime and yet they aren't going out of business. In many cases they are thriving.

I think that view, with all due respect, is taking the proverbial ostrich head in the sand perspective.

In fact, I believe it's more true than ever now -- especially with social media like Facebook, Twitter, etc. -- that among true business professionals and with experts in the academic world that track such things -- where everyone is scrutinized and hundreds of millions of people know what the Japanese Chairman of Toyota said this afternoon and what Ashton Kutcher had for breakfast as soon as it happens -- businesses are (or should be) on top of how they treat their customers and what their customers think about them in order to succeed.

I think that with the social media boom, we have become oversaturated with information.  There is always someone bitching about quality, customer service, etc.  I think that, for the most part, it falls on deaf ears.

It is like car alarms. When someone hears one, no one thinks "hey that guy's car is being stolen"  they think "I wish someone would turn that damn thing off".

Even hearing, about Excel's bad luck with Atlantic, people like Eddie and I who have used them are probably not going to be dissuaded.  It would take a pretty catastrophic story to do so.

Even when issues are close to home, rarely will people be swayed.  I complain constantly about Northwest Airlines.  That doesn't stop my coworkers from using them if their schedule is convenient.  One of my coworkers was stranded and abandoned by United in Denver.  That won't stop me from using t

Even if Atlantic had screwed up worse and tomorrow had a deal of a Dozen Gurkha Centurions for $20, I would take the risk.

Thank you for making my point better than I can.  

[nwb]

"I think that with the social media boom, we have become oversaturated with information.  There is always someone bitching about quality, customer service, etc.  I think that, for the most part, it falls on deaf ears."

I agree with being oversaturated - sometimes it is hard to tell truth when you have so much "noise" going on.  However, if one of my close friends complains about a company, I listen and take note.  Similarly, I've had a number of friends leave vendors because I had bad experiences with them.  For instance, even though I've found some great deals on Thompson, I'm always reluctant to do business with them, mostly because of you guys.

"Even hearing, about Excel's bad luck with Atlantic, people like Eddie and I who have used them are probably not going to be dissuaded.  It would take a pretty catastrophic story to do so."

No offense to Excel, but he is fairly new here.  What if Eddie (BlackIrish), Tim (Podman), or especially Paul (Senorpablo) had said the same thing.  I'm not going to speak for everyone, but I would take their complaints very seriously.  As a matter of fact, I probably wouldn't do business with the offending vendor until the situation was made right.

"Even when issues are close to home, rarely will people be swayed.  I complain constantly about Northwest Airlines.  That doesn't stop my coworkers from using them if their schedule is convenient.  One of my coworkers was stranded and abandoned by United in Denver.  That won't stop me from using them."

I get swayed all the time.  AT&T was my wireless carrier for 3 or 4 years, but I had one bad CS experience with them, and I immediately switched to Verizon.  As far as I can tell, I probably pay $20-$30 extra a month for Verizon, but I would never go back to AT&T.  Also, I would be reluctant to use airlines as an example - it is not exactly a beacon of true free market industry.

Dave S. had it exactly right, though.  There will always be exceptions, especially in the case where a business is a low cost leader (Wal-Mart comes to mind).  Another would be highly regulated or monopolized industries.  Customer service is absolutely crucial to small and mid-size businesses, especially those in niche markets where there are a number of vendors.

nwb

[metalhead y cigarguy]

I agree that for mom and pop shops it's important to satisfy all your customers, but the large corporations I worked for, one having over 1300 stores across the US, Canada, Mexico, Hawaii etc. and the other having over 900 stores across the US, the few pissed off customers don't make a dent in their business.  

You also have to understand that not all pissed off customers were treated unfairly. Sometimes it just comes down to following policy, and the reason the policy is in place is because some retard before them abused the system. Getting pissed off at a store because they followed policy is completely different then a customer that truly received bad customer service.

[nwb]

metalhead y cigarguy - 5/28/2010  4:32 AM

You also have to understand that not all pissed off customers were treated unfairly. Sometimes it just comes down to following policy, and the reason the policy is in place is because some retard before them abused the system. Getting pissed off at a store because they followed policy is completely different then a customer that truly received bad customer service.

That is very true - it is near impossible to please everyone.

nwb