Famous Mold

[Jackal]

The 10% is laughable.  To me, its is no big deal.  There are a half dozen other online vendors that I am happy to work with.

I can understand from a business side why they can't admit fault.  What they would be afraid of is for some loudmouth to go on the cigar websites telling everyone how they got mold 3 times from Famous.  That is bad press.  I guess that they figure that I would happy take the discount coupon and just fade away into the background.

Well, unless anything else weird happens in this saga, I am done with this topic.

[cmmayo]

Sounds like a bunch of BS coming from the call center manager--how does managing a call center qualify him to correct a chemist?

I've had the same BS happen to me at a store run by a guy that couldn't correct the wife of a cigar smoker looking for cigars similar to the "Zinc" brand her husband smokes. Luckily I was standing there to help her realize the brand name was "Zino."

Weeks later, I point out that the JdN cigars had mold on them and the guy says, "I'm pretty sure that's plume." I haven't been back to Cigar Warehouse on 1604 because I'd rather not deal with BS.

Just curious... Is there a test you can do on mold to verify what it is? Not that you should have to mess with the time and expense...

Here's a video from last month regarding another CAO brand--this time from Thompson--that has some white stuff on it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1yqzjnIJWic&feature=player_embedded

Does that look like plume or mold to you guys?  

[consti]

I dunno. I know plume when I see it... That looked a little too much like mold to me.

[Rebecca Silverwolf]

A 10% coupon is definitely not much in the way of compensation, especially since they're still trying to say it's not mold.  

[nwb]

Jackal - 9/8/2010  12:15 AM

The 10% is laughable.  To me, its is no big deal.  There are a half dozen other online vendors that I am happy to work with.

Completely agree.  Guess I won't be sending any of my cigar budget their way.

[ROTHNH]

Gary Korb responded quckily to my second e-mail to him about this:

"Hi Rich,
 
"Saw the link. Thank you and the situation is being handled as best it can be.
Certainly, if the mold is really nasty, they should be returned.
 
"The only thing I can add to your closing remarks is that eventually things like this happen, even to those who have their customers' best interests in mind.
 
"Happy smokes,
Gary
(__[GK]_____{{{{ ~~
www.Famous-Smoke.com
www.CigarAdvisor.com
What's in your humidor?"

I came away from this situation with the impression that this is all a sad situation and although Gary, it seems, in his position, can't do much about it, there is at least one serious flaw in Famous Smoke Shop's customer service:

Making absolutely certain that proper training is provided to *anyone* who is entrusted to determine *any* issue with a defective product, especially not-so-obvious or difficult ones, such as mold.

These inherent, serious flaws at Famous will cause me, like many of my fellow Geeks here, to question the reliability of the expertise I expect from Famous Sm oke Shop personnel and, since Jason's whole unfortunate experience with the Vision cigars was handled by the Famous SMoke Shop Customer Service Deptartment, it renders me unable to trust or rely on their CSR assistance when needed.

[Jackal]

Just to beat the dead horse one more time about mold issues.

Personally, I do not like the idea of bringing mold spores into my mouth.  There has been a lot of work done by the Canadian government on the sclerotinia minor fungal strain (they were evaluating it as an environmentally friendly bacteriacide).  

The conclusions were that there was little danger of oral (ingestion) toxicity.  However, there was a strong correlation to the mold being a sensitizing agent, and there were toxic effects in lab animals via inhalation.  Thus, I don't think that it is a great idea to smoke cigars that are infected with white mold.

[Cigahs]

Gentlemen...

My name is Humberto. For those that don't know me, I've worked for Famous for years and have participated in many board discussions across the web but not here.. Never even heard about this place until this morning, when Arthur jumped over the counter and almost strangled someone.

Here's the deal. We're a great company and excel at a great number of things. Our customer satisfaction rate is damn near 100%. But a company is only as perfect as the people it employs. Hence, though we claim otherwise, we're far from perfect by any stretch of the imagination. I'm not sure how it got communicated that we're selling moldy cigars and calling it plume and I'm not going to speculate other than to say that someone down the line most likely didn't know any better. The information was considered 'trusted' and ultimately conveyed to you.

We've been in business since 1939. There's no way we could possibly be that successful by selling foul, nasty, moldy cigars and we certainly aren't about to start pawning them off to you now by calling it by another name.

In a nutshell, what you got there is mold. The folks at CAO made the conscientious decision to sell us the remainder of all their Vision inventory at a reasonably discounted price which is being passed on to the consumer. We got it all. Unfortunately, and unknown to either of us, some bad product was mixed in with the closeout. To clarify, this does not reflect on how we store and/or humidify product. As a result, we're now inspecting every CAO Vision box to make sure it's good, premium, & smokeable product. We're also honoring our no-nonsense guarantee that came right from Arthur's mouth and printed in every catalog... "I do not consider a sale complete until the customer is happy". For whatever it's worth, the fine folks at CAO have been extremely cooperative and are more than willing to work directly with us on this issue.

As far as what you heard from Gary and/or Patrick.. I won't disparage co-workers that I respect in open forum. I'll simply say they should have known better and leave it at that.

In closing, we cannot apologize enough for this apparent snafu. This was handled badly. Plain and simple. The comments and criticisms on this thread were well deserved. We won't let it happen again.

Humberto

[Jackal]

Thank you.  All I wanted was an honest answer.

As an avid cigar collector and a scientist with over 15 years of experience in the fields of chemistry and microbiology, I do not take kindly to being told that I don't know what I am talking about when it comes to mold, plume, calcium crystals or any other anomaly that I might have seen on a cigar.  

The gentleman that I spoke to on the second return was very helpful.  The woman that I spoke to on the first return was somewhat condescending.  The woman that I spoke to on the third return (may have been the same one) was overly rude.  She blatantly told me that both batches of returned cigars were inspected and that it was plume, and that I just don't know how to tell the difference.

Also Patrick Haines stated in an e-mail to me "After inspecting your cigars, they do indeed have enough bloom (not mold) that I can see would concern you. Either way, you must be completely satisfied before we are."  Again, this appears to me to be a blatant dodge at taking responsibility for the situation.

I will most likely continue doing some business with Famous, however, as you said this situation was handled poorly.  Furthermore, your customer service representative (the one that I spoke to the third time) has a bad attitude and insufficient training/ information for her position.  


Please forward this message to Artur as I believe that he should be aware of what goes on in his place of business.

[junglepete]

So, Famous admits that CAO sold them moldy cigars...which in turn they sold to you and then argued left and right that it was not mold. If it were me...I would be a satisfied customer by something more than 10%...something like a box of cigars for me trouble  

[Jackal]

junglepete - 9/10/2010  2:07 PM

So, Famous admits that CAO sold them moldy cigars...which in turn they sold to you and then argued left and right that it was not mold. If it were me...I would be satisfied customer by something more than 10%...something like a box of cigars for me trouble  

I am not going to be petty about this.  However, it may behoove them to check my purchase history over the last year to see the volume of business just from me (not counting other members of this site) that easily can transfer to Holts just because of bad customer service.

[Cigahs]

Jackal - 9/10/2010  5:03 PM

Thank you.  All I wanted was an honest answer.

As an avid cigar collector and a scientist with over 15 years of experience in the fields of chemistry and microbiology, I do not take kindly to being told that I don't know what I am talking about when it comes to mold, plume, calcium crystals or any other anomaly that I might have seen on a cigar.  

The gentleman that I spoke to on the second return was very helpful.  The woman that I spoke to on the first return was somewhat condescending.  The woman that I spoke to on the third return (may have been the same one) was overly rude.  She blatantly told me that both batches of returned cigars were inspected and that it was plume, and that I just don't know how to tell the difference.

Also Patrick Haines stated in an e-mail to me "After inspecting your cigars, they do indeed have enough bloom (not mold) that I can see would concern you. Either way, you must be completely satisfied before we are."  Again, this appears to me to be a blatant dodge at taking responsibility for the situation.

I will most likely continue doing some business with Famous, however, as you said this situation was handled poorly.  Furthermore, your customer service representative (the one that I spoke to the third time) has a bad attitude and insufficient training/ information for her position.  


Please forward this message to Artur as I believe that he should be aware of what goes on in his place of business.

Arthur was actually the person that discovered the thread. He knows all about it.. Lucky for me, I don't work anywhere near the call center or customer service. I'm just a guy that writes pretty good.  

Thus, Arthur is well aware of your situation and is handling it... ehem... appropriately.

[ROTHNH]

Arthur needs to work *hard* on improving his customer service center.  That CSR
"in charge" the director or whatever -- sent a canned reply -- an insult to both Arthur's customers and the rest of his trusted staff and ultimately, to Arrthur's way of doing business.

An utter disappointment.

That Arthur "jumped over the counter" on this was something I stated first in this thread -- and I have no doubt he did.  Nor do I doubt he is still reading this thread.

Now for the shake up (and dismissals) in the cuistomer service center, since we've thus proven there are kinks on what Arthur expects.

Let's see what are the results of above and beyond.

[mcdimond]

ROTHNH - 9/3/2010  6:37 PM

Again, I'm just amazed at Famous for rolling over and playing dead on this.

I the old days, Arthur would have jumped over the damned counter and grabbed this problem with both hands.

If I were you, I'd write Arthur an e-mail.

ditto.

Famous has always given me great service. I'm sure somebody wants to know about bad customer experiences...

[junglepete]

Well, I would be prepared to purchase from Famous again, but only if they do something to completely satisfy Jason. But as of today I will be removing my name from their email list.

Here is a short note I sent to Famous this evening:

"I have removed my name from your email list. Furthermore, I will no longer buy cigars from Famous until the matter with Jason Sherlock has been resolved to his complete satisfaction. I am also advising all members from cigargeeks.com to do the same."

So fellow cigar geeks, I am calling upon you all to take a stand of solidarity and follow my lead by not purchasing cigars from Famous until this matter has been resolved to Jason's 100% satisfaction. I will be keeping this thread alive and fresh so everyone knows what has happened. I am also asking for you to write a short note to famous as I did.

In brief, for those who are new members or have not heard, Jason returned three boxes (one at a time after 3 consecutive purchases and returns) of CAO Vision cigars due to mold. Customer service rudely argued with him that it was not mold but was plume/bloom and that in good faith they offered him 10% off his next purchase for his trouble, even though they took no responsibility for the matter at hand. Upon further investigation, Famous discovered that it was actually mold. Famous was in the wrong and treated a regular customer badly. I believe he deserves more than a 10% discount on his next puchase due to his faithful business with Famous.

Thanks...Pete
Cigargeeks Administrator

[gitfiddl]

junglepete - 9/10/2010  10:08 PM

Well, I would be prepared to purchase from Famous again, but only if they do something to completely satisfy Jason. But as of today I will be removing my name from their email list.

Here is a short note I sent to Famous this evening:

"I have removed my name from your email list. Furthermore, I will no longer buy cigars from Famous until the matter with Jason Sherlock has been resolved to his complete satisfaction. I am also advising all members from cigargeeks.com to do the same."

So fellow cigar geeks, I am calling upon you all to take a stand of solidarity and follow my lead by not purchasing cigars from Famous until this matter has been resolved to Jason's 100% satisfaction. I will be keeping this thread alive and fresh so everyone knows what has happened. I am also asking for you to write a short note to famous as I did.

In brief, for those who are new members or have not heard, Jason returned three boxes (one at a time after 3 consecutive purchase and returns) of CAO Vision cigars due to mold. Customer service rudely argued with him that it was not mold but was plume/bloom and that in good faith they offered him 10% off his next purchase for his trouble even though they took not responsibility for the matter at hand. Upon further investigation Famous discovered that it was actually mold. Famous was in the wrong and treated a regular customer badly. I believe he deserves more than a 10% discount on his next puchase due to his faithful business with Famous.

Thanks...Pete
Cigargeeks Administrator

I'm with Pete on this one.  As much as it pains me to resist the Monster, I will do so.  Until this issue is resolved to Jason's complete satisfaction, I will NOT order anything from Famous.  My purchases might be meager, somewhere along the lines of $50-100 a month from them, but that's money they will be missing out of their coffers.  I spent close to 20 years in retail sales/management.  The way Jason has been treated violates every tenet of any manual I've ever read, any course I've attended and/or taught on "Customer Relations".  A 10% discount on his next purchase is laughable at best.  

[ROTHNH]

Cigahs - 9/10/2010  5:10 PM

Arthur was actually the person that discovered the thread. He knows all about it.. Lucky for me, I don't work anywhere near the call center or customer service. I'm just a guy that writes pretty good.  

Thus, Arthur is well aware of your situation and is handling it... ehem... appropriately.

It's very obvious that there are some flaws in Famous's call center and customer service.   Mr. Haines' epic fail and his department's faux pas require some definite restructuring and retraining, starting with everyone in the call center/CSRs memorizing Arthur's words written inside the front cover of every Famous Smoke Shop catalog.

I have no doubt whatsoever that Arthur will personally take care of this matter.

Meanwhile, I'm with my fellow Geeks -- my business with Famous Smoke Shop is on hold until this matter is resolved to Jason's satisfaction.

[kola]

It's time for me to restock and I had a couple boxes picked out, but put my plans on hold when this thread popped up. I think until we see what happens, I'll restock from elsewhere. Too bad, I was looking forward to them.

[PA.pierced2010]

Hopefully Arthur or the "big boss" gets to the bottom of this, fesses up to the mold and offers more than 10% discount to Jackal.

[simcha]

Sorry to hear this, this issue would be typical to purchase here in Israel, what happaned to Jason is a daily problem with us, but we are Levantines.

I grew up on the legend that in the USA customer service is the altar of business relations.

I find out that things are not excatly as I believe they are, I had also not so good exprience with some of the online sites & again believed it's accidental.

Another faith was spoiled, pity

simcha

[Cigahs]

Gentlemen:

Your act of solidarity is admirable. Yet, this matter is between one customer and one company he's doing business with. As I mentioned before, the issue is being dealt with. Pouring gas to the flames here will have no effect on its outcome other than to dissuade other satisfied customers, (many of which I'm sure have never had any negative issues with Famous Smoke Shop after a multitude of purchases), from doing business with a very reputable company that made one notable error. I ask that you allow us to do our job and handle the matter appropriately before grabbing your torches and pitchforks. After all, this is (or at least used to be) a gentleman's business.

Thank you.

Humberto

[ROTHNH]

simcha - 9/11/2010  9:21 AM

Sorry to hear this, this issue would be typical to purchase here in Israel, what happaned to Jason is a daily problem with us, but we are Levantines.

I grew up on the legend that in the USA customer service is the altar of business relations.

I find out that things are not excatly as I believe they are, I had also not so good exprience with some of the online sites & again believed it's accidental.

Another faith was spoiled, pity

simcha

Simcha, while some believe otherwise, I'm still convinced that customer satisfaction is key to the success of any business that deals directly with their customers while competing for sales.  My father used to say that, in business, it takes 100 positive remarks to undo the damage to a business's reputation by just one voiciforous, unhappy customer.

We'll hear from Jason soon, I am sure.

[kola]

Cigahs - 9/11/2010  10:59 AM

Gentlemen:

Your act of solidarity is admirable. Yet, this matter is between one customer and one company he's doing business with. As I mentioned before, the issue is being dealt with. Pouring gas to the flames here will have no effect on its outcome other than to dissuade other satisfied customers, (many of which I'm sure have never had any negative issues with Famous Smoke Shop after a multitude of purchases), from doing business with a very reputable company that made one notable error. I ask that you allow us to do our job and handle the matter appropriately before grabbing your torches and pitchforks. After all, this is (or at least used to be) a gentleman's business.

Thank you.

Humberto

It seems you understand the situation clearly. None of us wish to deal with the type of annoyance over a luxury purchase where high hopes and expectations are dashed.  A gentleman's business is based on trust. If one side fails on an agreement, it is their responsibility to ensure the situation is handled gracefully and that the terms of the agreement are met to the satisfaction of the other. None of us should have to lecture you on this. So. Many of us are happy to take the sidelines and watch to see how this is resolved. It is *your* actions that determine the outcome.

[NES Tek]

I hope it comes out good in the end. We have all had great transactions with Famous, but leave a bad taste.

[Cigahs]

kola - 9/11/2010  11:13 AM

Cigahs - 9/11/2010  10:59 AM

Gentlemen:

Your act of solidarity is admirable. Yet, this matter is between one customer and one company he's doing business with. As I mentioned before, the issue is being dealt with. Pouring gas to the flames here will have no effect on its outcome other than to dissuade other satisfied customers, (many of which I'm sure have never had any negative issues with Famous Smoke Shop after a multitude of purchases), from doing business with a very reputable company that made one notable error. I ask that you allow us to do our job and handle the matter appropriately before grabbing your torches and pitchforks. After all, this is (or at least used to be) a gentleman's business.

Thank you.

Humberto

It seems you understand the situation clearly. None of us wish to deal with the type of annoyance over a luxury purchase where high hopes and expectations are dashed.  A gentleman's business is based on trust. If one side fails on an agreement, it is their responsibility to ensure the situation is handled gracefully and that the terms of the agreement are met to the satisfaction of the other. None of us should have to lecture you on this. So. Many of us are happy to take the sidelines and watch to see how this is resolved. It is *your* actions that determine the outcome.

In this case *our* actions are geared towards one person. No one wants an audience when handling a sensitive situation. As far as satisfaction towards our customer, in this case 'Jackal', it's been clearly established that we've made several attempts at getting him the products he ordered at no extra expense to him. The big issue, as I understand it, was with the way he was treated by a member or members of our staff and the insistence that he didn't know what he was talking about. We've admitted, without prejudice and in open forum that (a) it was mold and (b) we were wrong. Dealing with staff members, at this point, is an internal matter. His last post on this was that he only wanted the truth, which he and the rest of you got.

If there is anything further to be done here, it has nothing to do with anyone else but 'Jackal' and Famous Smoke Shop. Unless he chooses to publish his dealings with us here, we really have nothing left to say on this as we absolutely respect our customers' privacy.

Humberto